Noah and the great deep

[jockscott]

Do you think that the old oral traditions had these stories for the fireside before they were blended into a religious framework and subsequently written down?

Good point Micilin, One thing though, if these stories were passed down orally for many years before being written down, the stories could have changed beyond all recognition over the intervening years (a bit like Chinese whispers) .. So much so, that Noah's flood could just have been a month of heavy rain, that flooded only one area, in the Middle East.

 

[breadnbutter]

It could be - not something I have thought of before . I thought of them as stories to explain the world rather than just yarns.

Do you think that the old oral traditions had these stories for the fireside before they were blended into a religious framework and subsequently written down?

Stories about Samson, Cú Chulainn, Asterix all great tales.

Also things like restrictions on eating pigs and shellfish, were they initially practical warnings on food going off?

Yes, exactly what I was proposing. Perhaps some aimed at adults and others written for children, especially the moralistic ones.

Some of the 'historical' OT books, you know, the ones with all the 'begatting' could hardly be described as entertainment. Perhaps they were written for people with sleep disorders.

The Ten Commandments, I am sure, were put together by Moses to deter crime and, being 'the word of God', had the value of instilling fear as, in those days, everyone believed in an omnipotent supernatural being.

As you say, the bit about not eating certain foods was certainly a practical guide to avoiding food poisoning or taking on board such things as tapeworms. As we all know, certain religions still prohibit the consumption of such foods despite the fact that we now know how to avoid illness by, for example, cooking food thoroughly. I suspect they'll catch up with the rest of us... eventually!

not only was it wriiten in stone,the ten commandments, it was written in mans soul, when you think about stealing,your conscience bears witness to you that its wrong, or if you lie, ect people can ignore it, becuase of the rebelion sin nature in us. then you can sear the conscience enough unitil your hardened to it.

 

[Micilin]

not only was it wriiten in stone,the ten commandments, it was written in mans soul, when you think about stealing,your conscience bears witness to you that its wrong, or if you lie, ect people can ignore it, becuase of the rebelion sin nature in us. then you can sear the conscience enough unitil your hardened to it.

Surely if it was written in our soul, there would be no need to write it down?

Was the concept of a 'soul' as you put it above common, or even a part of Jewish belief before the time of Jesus?

 

[Micilin]

Do you think that the old oral traditions had these stories for the fireside before they were blended into a religious framework and subsequently written down?

Good point Micilin, One thing though, if these stories were passed down orally for many years before being written down, the stories could have changed beyond all recognition over the intervening years (a bit like Chinese whispers) .. So much so, that Noah's flood could just have been a month of heavy rain, that flooded only one area, in the Middle East.

I agree, so that perhaps Goliath (like Hercules) grew over each telling.

 

[Micilin]

If science is so clever, why did it believe in the steady state theory of the universe for so many years? If they'd read the Bible (In the beginning there was darkness and God said "let there be light) they would have known about the 'big bang theory' two thousand years earlier.

Not sure how relevant that is to the Noah story.

I think it is fascinating how many different flood memories there are, and probably many more have died out with different cultures and languages.

One question is , are they race memories of one event, of different events at different times in different places, or different localised floods during an overall wet period.

 

[breadnbutter]

not only was it wriiten in stone,the ten commandments, it was written in mans soul, when you think about stealing,your conscience bears witness to you that its wrong, or if you lie, ect people can ignore it, becuase of the rebelion sin nature in us. then you can sear the conscience enough unitil your hardened to it.

Surely if it was written in our soul, there would be no need to write it down?

Was the concept of a 'soul' as you put it above common, or even a part of Jewish belief before the time of Jesus?

. This law God had given to man before, it was written in his heart by God; but sin had so defaced that writing, that it was necessary to revive the knowledge of it.

Genesis 2:7

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL.

 

[GasBod]

not only was it wriiten in stone,the ten commandments, it was written in mans soul, when you think about stealing,your conscience bears witness to you that its wrong, or if you lie, ect people can ignore it, becuase of the rebelion sin nature in us. then you can sear the conscience enough unitil your hardened to it.

Surely if it was written in our soul, there would be no need to write it down?

Was the concept of a 'soul' as you put it above common, or even a part of Jewish belief before the time of Jesus?

. This law God had given to man before, it was written in his heart by God; but sin had so defaced that writing, that it was necessary to revive the knowledge of it.

Genesis 2:7

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL.

God did indeed create our souls

 

[Dextraneous]

In years to come, badgers and hedgehogs will write down their stories of the cleansing of their Somerset homes in the great floods.

 

[Micilin]

. This law God had given to man before, it was written in his heart by God; but sin had so defaced that writing, that it was necessary to revive the knowledge of it.

Genesis 2:7

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL.

Okay- let's try again.

The word ' nephesh' in the original translates Genesis 2:7 as ' living creature' rather than 'soul' . In your study of scripture and Jewish beliefs have you come across the concept of a soul as in the context of your quotes? When did it become part of Jewish belief?

I'm asking to see if you knew and if you looked beyond the English translations of the Bible, which as we know are flawed.

Not a comment on you, but In general I am constantly amazed at the lack of scriptural knowledge of people who supposedly ascribe such importance to the bible.

As for sin defacing what God wrote, it makes an interpretation of God as all powerful hard to support. Is evil more powerful in your view?