Noisy Boiler

[Jackthebiscuit]

Hi All,

My sisters boiler had started to make a grinding noise when it was first turned on,,,, but after a few minutes it performed normally. She has a contract with British Gas and the engineer called, got a foot-pump out and said 'the cylinder was empty',,, or words similar. But when he turned it on again the noise continued and he then said that it was 'sludge in the system' and that it needed a 'power flush' and that this work is not included in her contract and that it costs £700-00.

But after he left the boiler stopped completely, she can get hot water provided the central heating is turned off,, but within a minute of the heating being turned on the boiler makes the grinding noise again and cuts out.

The system was installed about 16 years ago but the boiler, a Worcester 24i Junior combi was installed 3 years ago by Worcester and serves 6 radiators and has been regularly maintained by British Gas. The location is 'hard water' London and the water inlet to the boiler has a 'Lime eater' unit installed.

Any comments on the need for a 'power flush' as a remedy, or a cheaper alternative?

 

[nickso]

sounds like a faulty pump or fan to me.

was she advised previous to that visit of any sludge or water quality issues that would need remedial action?

 

[mickyg]

She's paying for a service contract, get them back to fix it. This is a usual trick by a rogue element of BG engineers.

 

[nickso]

She's paying for a service contract, get them back to fix it. This is a usual trick by a rogue element of BG engineers.

you of all people know better then that micky......let him answer the question first.

 

[mickyg]

She's paying for a service contract, get them back to fix it. This is a usual trick by a rogue element of BG engineers.

you of all people know better then that micky......let him answer the question first.

and your obviously quite aware they should repair the fault "before" recommending the powerflush, not the other way around.

 

[nickso]

She's paying for a service contract, get them back to fix it. This is a usual trick by a rogue element of BG engineers.

you of all people know better then that micky......let him answer the question first.

and your obviously quite aware they should repair the fault "before" recommending the powerflush, not the other way around.

think about it.

 

[Agile]

Clearly two BG/exBG engineers dont agree on the exact procedure applicable in a simple situation like this.

The plain fact is that failure to clean the system before fitting a boiler will cause the system to get sludged up and ruin the pump.

BG dont include sludge in their cover and I would be surprised if they cover pumps damaged by sludge.

Worcester make boilers but they dont have an installation service. The real fault rests with the installer whoever he was for not cleaning the old system.

In the meantime, you need to decide how best to get the boiler repaired as required either by BG or an independent.

By the way £700 is a BG price to power flush.

Most independents charge about £350 or even a little less!

Tony

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

sounds like a faulty pump or fan to me.

was she advised previous to that visit of any sludge or water quality issues that would need remedial action?

Nickso

About a year ago she had a similar problem except the noise was different. Then it was like a hot sizzling frying pan noise, this noise was more like a coffee grinder. I've looked at the report and last time they said it was limescale and put an inhibitor into the system which cured the problem. He did write on the report that if the inhibitor failed that she may need a power flush,,, but he didn't tell her that it wasn't covered by her contract and that she would have to pay extra.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

Morning all and thanks for the replies.

The latest in that BG returned yesterday evening and at first he said it was the heat exchanger,,, but then decided the pump was faulty due to sludge so replaced it. The noise is still there when the boiler starts, but at least she has heat again while she decides the next best course of action.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

She's paying for a service contract, get them back to fix it. This is a usual trick by a rogue element of BG engineers.

Mickyg,

Not much she can do, if they wont do the power flush then she can't force them.

She is just furious as she thought she did everything right in getting Worcester (or their reps) to install the boiler, and then getting BG to maintain it on a regular basis.

The Contract.

Following her annual service last year she didn't have hot water at her kitchen sink so she got them back and they said that the boiler was OK and that it was a 'plumbing problem'. They suggested she take out a plumbing contract and they would then send a plumber around to fix same. It seemed a good deal apart from she had to pay a premium to include 'electrics', but as it covered drains as well she decided to sign-up.

When the plumber turned up he said that he though it was a problem with her kitchen tap, but the contract didn't allow him to take the tap apart to inspect it,,, and he left..!!

With this latest episode she will cancel the contract as soon as she can. She is paying over £300 pa and still finds herself in this mess.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

Clearly two BG/exBG engineers dont agree on the exact procedure applicable in a simple situation like this.

The plain fact is that failure to clean the system before fitting a boiler will cause the system to get sludged up and ruin the pump.

BG dont include sludge in their cover and I would be surprised if they cover pumps damaged by sludge.

Worcester make boilers but they dont have an installation service. The real fault rests with the installer whoever he was for not cleaning the old system.

In the meantime, you need to decide how best to get the boiler repaired as required either by BG or an independent.

By the way £700 is a BG price to power flush.

Most independents charge about £350 or even a little less!

Tony

Agile/Tony,

She says the BG engineers have never agreed or fixed anything on their first visit,,, and they have always had to return.

Worcester. The problem is that the general public don't know who is who anymore, she thought the installers were Worcester. When she bought the boiler she didn't cut corners, but took the advice given at the time to avoid the very situation she now finds herself in. The recommendations of Worcester (or their reps) was followed,,, and the boiler has been regularly serviced since, and yet she find herself in this mess..!.

Though this is the second pump within the last year, the engineer diagnosis was wrong when the first pump was changed. The problems was limescale and remedied by adding a chemical into the system. When he realised that the new pump made no difference, he didn't re-instate the old pump, so she was issued with a new pump that she didn't need! There is a sticker on the boiler 'Sentinel inhibitor' and I assume this was the product used to breakdown the limescale.

Though she had a 'Limescale eater' installed when the new boiler was fitted, BG said that they are 'crap' and recommended 'MagnaClean' be installed when the power flush is done. If both are done together they will charge her £800.

Is it possible to just flush the system through using main pressure water only? When the system is drained the 'MagnaClean' unit or something similar could be fitting to pick up any residue left behind? She also has thermostat valves on each rad but, surprise surprise, has had problems with these also. So when the system is drained down she wants to revert back to manual valves. Is this advisable, there is no room stat but one could be fitted?

Thanx again to you all for your help.

 

[Agile]

Worcester do not install boilers, now do their reps as they are salesmen and not qualified installers. An independent installer must have fitted it and should have given an invoice, unless they were cash cowboys!

The lime scale reducer is for the hot water circuit and nothing to do with the primary circuit.

Sentinel X200 is to deal with lime scale in the PRIMARY circuit.

Sentinel X100 is inhibitor which should have beem put into the PRIMARY system at installation, and topped up later perhaps.

I have heard of inhibitor being sold cheaply on Ebay with the labels missing of the bottle! Some cowboy on a contract install for a council was fitting the labels but not the actual inhibitor which he then sold on Ebay. Thats the kind of cowboys we are up against!

Tony

 

[nickso]

seems some of the BG guys have been a little unhelpful by not explaining the contract properly.

also seems that she hasnt bothered to find out for herself. dont know how many times ive said......know your T+C's as its ultimately on your head.

 

[Agile]

Although she seems totally confused as to who installed her boiler, I think its quite reasonable that she should expect to be correctly informed by BG engineers as to her entitlement to repairs.

It should not be a legal battle over the interpretation of words in the contract. Thats a solicitor's job not a householder's.

Nor should BG staff use a householder's unfamilarity with the contract wording to take advantage and refuse to do work which should be covered.

Tony

 

[nickso]

Although she seems totally confused as to who installed her boiler, I think its quite reasonable that she should expect to be correctly informed by BG engineers as to her entitlement to repairs.
.

yes thats why i said what i said.

It should not be a legal battle over the interpretation of words in the contract. Thats a solicitor's job not a householder's.

getting a little excited here glazier, no one mentioned solicitors or legal battles.

if the householder doesnt know the T+C's to the contract they hold with any contractor and dont hold the contractor to it because of their complacency i have little sympathy, escpecially when the customer then bleats about it to me when inform them of the policy. the T+C's are there for a reason, to have a clear understanding of each parties duty under the contract.

Nor should BG staff use a householder's unfamilarity with the contract wording to take advantage and refuse to do work which should be covered

in an ideal world no, in reality it is going to happen with annoying regularity. it is solely up to the householder to look after their own interests. to leave it up to the contractor is pure naivety.