Normal for Blackburn.

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JP_ said:
Yes, very often it does. Drugs are not free, drug users can't work, drug users get into debt with dealers.

Of course, we're not talking about occasional cannabis users, but then, they are not the ones committing violent crimes.

For balance, some recent criminals in Essex, starting with a drug addict that assaulted a cancer patient.
Bloody white people, coming over here and committing crimes!
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And this fella wasn't even invited to be on the show

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JP_ said:
Yes, very often it does. Drugs are not free, drug users can't work, drug users get into debt with dealers.

Of course, we're not talking about occasional cannabis users, but then, they are not the ones committing violent crimes.

For balance, some recent criminals in Essex, starting with a drug addict that assaulted a cancer patient.
Bloody white people, coming over here and committing crimes!
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So who of these six white English men
would you loose any sleep for or riot if they were killed by a bent copper?
 
I don't want to work with anyone who is a drug user - regardles of legal or not. Narcotics affect people's judgement and reasoning, so in any environment where safety is a primary concern, such as construction, you really don't want your safety, or that of others around you, to depend on some clown who is hopped-up on drugs. I've got rid of two of them for blatant drug use whilst at work in recent years, where their behaviour was erratic and the quality of their work was poor. Believe me, you don't want a drugged-up idiot working on a roof 100 feet up next to a road or putting in floor joists in from the top of a 2-storey high scaffolding tower. What is more worrying is that drug use at work now seems to be more common than alcohol - possibly cheaper, or less likely to be smelled, who knows? So, not really a fan of legalsation, I'm afraid.

Currently on opiod pain killers and I have to say that whilst it takes away the pain, I find that concentrating on anything for more than about 10 or 15 minutes is almost impossible. I'm starting to reduce the quantities slowly and TBH I'll be glad when I can cut them out
 
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IT Minion said:
You do realize the contradiction there right?
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Maybe I should have said "heavy", but I thought that was implied and that people wouldn't be anal with me about it. Obviously not. In any case I'm not working at the moment as I simply can't walk any distance at present, so no contradiction at all so far as I can see. I am currently weaning myself off the morphine-like substance they've had me on and which can really screw your head up so I have no idea how anyone can function with a system full of that stuff

There is a very major difference between prescribed low-level analgesics and the heavy duty stuff. TBH anyone working for you with health issues and/or on medication is supposed to inform you so that you can make a decision as to their suitability to carry out tasks that you ask them to do. I feel this is particularly the case in construction
 
noseall said:
Bizarre question.:confused:
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JPs post was about white Essex criminals so I thought best stick to the subject and avoid mentioning the two black fellas and the illegal immigrant..

I bet meat loaf (may he rest in peace) could make a sequel song with that little lot
 
JobAndKnock said:
I don't want to work with anyone who is a drug user - regardles of legal or not. Narcotics affect people's judgement and reasoning, so in any environment where safety is a primary concern, such as construction, you really don't want your safety, or that of others around you, to depend on some clown who is hopped-up on drugs. I've got rid of two of them for blatant drug use whilst at work in recent years, where their behaviour was erratic and the quality of their work was poor. Believe me, you don't want a drugged-up idiot working on a roof 100 feet up next to a road or putting in floor joists in from the top of a 2-storey high scaffolding tower. What is more worrying is that drug use at work now seems to be more common than alcohol - possibly cheaper, or less likely to be smelled, who knows? So, not really a fan of legalsation, I'm afraid.
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Someone talking sense about drugs for once.

JP_ said:
.......cannabis users......
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"Users": stupid Tony Blair-type bland but devious euphemism.
 
JobAndKnock said:
I don't want to work with anyone who is a drug user - regardles of legal or not. Narcotics affect people's judgement and reasoning, so in any environment where safety is a primary concern, such as construction, you really don't want your safety, or that of others around you, to depend on some clown who is hopped-up on drugs. I've got rid of two of them for blatant drug use whilst at work in recent years, where their behaviour was erratic and the quality of their work was poor. Believe me, you don't want a drugged-up idiot working on a roof 100 feet up next to a road or putting in floor joists in from the top of a 2-storey high scaffolding tower. What is more worrying is that drug use at work now seems to be more common than alcohol - possibly cheaper, or less likely to be smelled, who knows? So, not really a fan of legalsation, I'm afraid.

Currently on opiod pain killers and I have to say that whilst it takes away the pain, I find that concentrating on anything for more than about 10 or 15 minutes is almost impossible. I'm starting to reduce the quantities slowly and TBH I'll be glad when I can cut them out
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Do you work with recreational alcohol users?
 
JP_ said:
Do you work with recreational alcohol users?
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Yes. But you shouldn't take your drug use into work with you

Anyone coming into work at start of shift or back from lunch smelling of alcohol and/or visibly inebriated gets red carded on the spot - this is the norm for any medium to large site nowadays, set by the main contractors these days. Similarly, the firm I work for has a rule for foremen that anyone caught coming in with a hangover is to be told to leave site and go and sort themselves out. Work trackside on the railways and you can be random tested for drugs and alcohol at any time you are on site or considered to be on duty (this came in after the Hither Green rail disaster and is referred to as the "Hidden rules") - and I've seen people sacked for what appear to some to be minor infractions. Some of the large contractors, like McAlpine, have now instituted random testing for drugs and alcohol as well, and bigger airports can also do this for staff working air side or in safety-related work. Get caught over the "arbitrary" limits and you get sent home (at best).

Do you have a problem with being told that you shouldn't be going into work hung over?
 
I'm of the generation that started out when there was almost no H&S in construction & followed the timeline all the way through to today where I consider it's a little bit OTT.

I remember chatting with a scaffolder years ago & what he said helped form the basis of my belief system. He said if anyone turns up or is on the job & they're somewhat naturally or artificially impaired or just plain clumsy, then they don't get to work with him. He said if you're near someone & they're going to fall then your natural instinct is to grab them & you're probably going with them. He said he could handle that if it was a momentary lapse of reason but not if they'd been on the beer or spliffs all night.

There are alcohol & drug users & there are alcohol & drug abusers. You need to know the difference, because if you set your limits wrong you won't be working with anyone. Thankfully, serial abusers tend to live chaotic lives & coming across one in the workplace is quite rare (that is if your employing standards work) but there's always the chance of meeting someone just starting the downwards spiral.

In all my projects over the years the only drink/drug/clumsy problems I've ever had is with a few agency labourers who are easy come, easy go.
 
Dork Lard Pure Blood said:
...if anyone turns up or is on the job & they're somewhat naturally or artificially impaired or just plain clumsy, then they don't get to work with him...
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My feelings exactly. But as a foreman, that applies to the entire team.

Dork Lard Pure Blood said:
You need to know the difference, because if you set your limits wrong you won't be working with anyone.
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As I said before, some of it is outside my remit - it's the main contractor who set their own standards and bar people (in the main). Pretty much everyone I've worked with likes the odd beer, and some like a spliff - this generally isn't a problem, providing they don't turn up the worse for wear and they don't do it in working hours. So the instruction is that if you are the worse for wear, call in sick and lose the day

Dork Lard Pure Blood said:
...but there's always the chance of meeting someone just starting the downwards spiral.
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One of the issues I'm sure you are aware of is that there are multiple contractors on sites -and not everyone has the same standards. The worst people seem to be the demo lads we work with at times which may be something to do with the environment they work in

The guys I've worked with regularly in recent years gave been a mix of cards in, subs and agency - the cards in and subs tend to behave themselves, I think partly because they are earning good money. Agency guys can be a lot more variable, so I tend to keep a weather eye on them for a wee while after they've started. When they get sh1t canned early on it's most often because of inexperience or incompetence. Only ever had a couple of dipsos, and the main contractor weeded them out before we had to.

BTW, you may think that H&S is a bit OTT, who doesn't at times, but one thing is for certain - deaths and serious injuries in construction have diminished over the last 30 odd years and the trend is still downwards
 
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