Now is this by chance or design ?

[wobs]

You're here because of the way it panned out not the other way Around. You are only less than a one in 200 million chance anyway. The odds for all of this are mind blowingly small.

Do we really know the odds if we are dealing in such huge numbers of planets/systems (even universes)?

Perhaps with the numbers involved it is more likely that this situation will occur at least once, than never to occur at all?

Pretty much this.

Billions of and billions of stars, and plenty of planets in the habitable zone around many of them, and there's at least one planet among all that, that can support life enough to enable evolution to where we are now.

Who'd have thought.

 

[breadnbutter]

You're here because of the way it panned out not the other way Around. You are only less than a one in 200 million chance anyway. The odds for all of this are mind blowingly small.

Do we really know the odds if we are dealing in such huge numbers of planets/systems (even universes)?

Perhaps with the numbers involved it is more likely that this situation will occur at least once, than never to occur at all?

the odds are, its impossible for it to have just have happened whithout some one behind it. that someone ,we believe and know is God.

they think they found the reason for the big bang,but cannot even found a jumbo jet gone missing.

 

[EddieM]

Yeah, dealing with almost infinitesimally small numbers in a vast (if not, as has been suggested in some scientific papers, infinte) size universe, makes for a brain burning list of possibilities. Bring into the mix that we are only really looking at what we consider habitable as well and frankly you may as well go to the pub (drink responsibly!!)

 

[EddieM]

You're here because of the way it panned out not the other way Around. You are only less than a one in 200 million chance anyway. The odds for all of this are mind blowingly small.

Do we really know the odds if we are dealing in such huge numbers of planets/systems (even universes)?

Perhaps with the numbers involved it is more likely that this situation will occur at least once, than never to occur at all?

the odds are, its impossible for it to have just have happened whithout some one behind it. that someone ,we believe and know is God.

they think they found the reason for the big bang,but cannot even found a jumbo jet gone missing.

But it just goes round in a circle, who created god... Clearly in the vocabulary (mathematical and verbal) this becomes a nonsense. Maybe we'll never know. Maybe we're not even asking the right questions. I feel one of my "heads" coming one.

 

[Micilin]

the odds are, its impossible for it to have just have happened whithout some one behind it. that someone ,we believe and know is God.

they think they found the reason for the big bang,but cannot even found a jumbo jet gone missing.

Not really.

Let's take Eddie's figures as an exercise.

Say the combination of things we need is odds of 200Mto 1. So for every 200M similar set ups, it is only likely to happen once. Small possibility, highly unlikely, but statistically more than once is not really on the cards. (Bearing in mind that chance is random and does not preclude more than once , or never)

However, if the numbers mean that we have twenty times that overall number of set ups, then the odds mean that we then statistically have the likelihood of our circumstances occurring twenty times.

This is where the big numbers work for us, because as we approach an infinite number of set ups, then the chances of our circumstances occurring more than once increases hugely , ( in extremis , also approaching infinity)

So that statistically, it is mathematically more likely that our circumstances arise more than once , than it is that it could happen just one time.

The comment on the jet is amusing, but as relevant as me losing my keys

 

[Mikefromlondon]

In the begining, there was nothing, then out of the blue everything poped out! one by one, things started to evolve from one form into another.

Well actually the above statment is clearly false, because there was no begining.
so all other statements following it are false.

There was No Begining, Nothing or the state of Nothing never could exist, never has done, everything we see in the universe was always there from eons, being transformed from one form into another, so if anyone belives that the Universe had a begining, then think again, there was no begining!

Nothing cannot give birth to anything. The big bang was not the birth of the univeres, the universe was here before even the big bang, the bang was merely a process of transformation.


Somthing always existed, it never came from anywhere , and that is because of this that we are here today, we did not come from nothing.

 

[breadnbutter]

the odds are, its impossible for it to have just have happened whithout some one behind it. that someone ,we believe and know is God.

they think they found the reason for the big bang,but cannot even found a jumbo jet gone missing.

Not really.

Let's take Eddie's figures as an exercise.

Say the combination of things we need is odds of 200Mto 1. So for every 200M similar set ups, it is only likely to happen once. Small possibility, highly unlikely, but statistically more than once is not really on the cards. (Bearing in mind that chance is random and does not preclude more than once , or never)

However, if the numbers mean that we have twenty times that overall number of set ups, then the odds mean that we then statistically have the likelihood of our circumstances occurring twenty times.

This is where the big numbers work for us, because as we approach an infinite number of set ups, then the chances of our circumstances occurring more than once increases hugely , ( in extremis , also approaching infinity)

So that statistically, it is mathematically more likely that our circumstances arise more than once , than it is that it could happen just one time.

The comment on the jet is amusing, but as relevant as me losing my keys

yes,but its not just one thing that has happened, there is a multiple of things that have happened each one on its own,is impossible whithout something behind it, example, the size of the sun, the distance from the earth to the sun,the earths spin,and axis, were did the 75% of water come from, the purpose of the moon to help the seas move,so they dont become stagnent, the ozone layer, and more before we even get to the chances of life, on earth.

 

[Micilin]

Of course the easy answer is we are here, ergo it is possible.

My point is that you can't use statistics to argue one way if you ignore them when they are used to argue the other.

As we approach infinity, the chances increase ie that our system could happen by chance.

Saying it is impossible is not the right phrasing here -

' I can't imagine it' or 'i don't believe it' are accurate. As you cannot prove it is impossible.

 

[Norcon]

You mean dawkins?
Guess what? He believes in a creator and has admitted this in interviews.

If you had researched him properly you would already know this.

Looking forward to the evidence for this one.

"And I suppose its possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of bio chemistry at molecular level in biology eh um.. you might find a signature of some sort of designer.
And that designer could well be a higher intelligence from else where in the universe"

Prof Richard Dawkins.



Those are dawkins own words in an interview.
So he believes in a supreme creator above all else.
Nuff said.

 

[Norcon]

You're here because of the way it panned out not the other way Around. You are only less than a one in 200 million chance anyway. The odds for all of this are mind blowingly small.

So small that it can't have happened without a higher intelligence wanting it to happen.

 

[Norcon]

Read it and weep succours.

 

[breadnbutter]

Of course the easy answer is we are here, ergo it is possible.

My point is that you can't use statistics to argue one way if you ignore them when they are used to argue the other.

As we approach infinity, the chances increase ie that our system could happen by chance.

Saying it is impossible is not the right phrasing here -

' I can't imagine it' or 'i don't believe it' are accurate. As you cannot prove it is impossible.

i dont have to prove its impossible, its self evident.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

I believe in father christmas and fairies. Nuff said.

 

[Dextraneous]

I've come to the conclusion that there must be a creator. This is based on the observation that there must be something out there that can explain the usefulness of Norcon. I'm damned if I can see it

 

[Micilin]

Read it and weep succours.

What Dawkins believes seems to be more of interest to you than to me, as evidenced by your fondness for bringing him to so many discussions-

any luck with my challenge or is this more of the usual avoidance?