Old ladies E7 & meter change?

[mattylad]

howdy,
My aged mother in law has just had her meters changed to smart meters.
The EDMI ES-12B electric meter - can someone confirm if this does Economy 7 ?

She has a Horstmann Electronic 7 Maxistore E7 controller in the kitchen and no user manual
and has just been pressing the boost button when needed for hot water with the heating coming on at about 10:30PM -6:30AM.

(Searches for the manual show a newer model, this is an older model)

After the meter change the controller seems to have reset it's times, so I reset the summer on/off boost period to the above times (the on & off were both set to 1am).

Heating worked OK but she had no hot water in the morning.
She seems sure that she would see a light after 7am to say the water was on. (although could be oldfuddled).

Looking at the wiring into it, it only has 1 wired output (red&black wires) which to me looks as if both storage heating and immersion are on the same circuit.

How will this be wired? with 4 heaters I can see this pulling a lot more current than the little relay inside the controller can handle?
She has a fuse centre next to her fuse box that seems to have individual fuses for each boiler so I assume they are individually wired, will there be a contactor inside there controlled by the timer?

ALso, if the immersion tank is on the same circuit this would suggest that she is heating it all through the night when it only needs a short time to heat up so would it be better adding a further timer in the tanks cupboard to turn that on/off at preset times fed by the same E7 circuit?

 

[ericmark]

Originally economy 7 had a white meter and independent fuse board and the meter did the switching, however it became a tariff rather than a system and used different methods as the years went by, so that items like washing machines could be run over night.

It did use radio 4 time signal and there has been talk of this turning off, and I have read only Scotland still has the old system working.

The result is there is no one answer as to how it works, some the user sets the time, some have trigger signals. But I would have thought this should have been all set up when meter changed, although saying that my father-in-law at 90 had smart meters fitted and they walked off without relighting the pilot light on the boiler and left him with no heating.

 

[winston1]

But I would have thought this should have been all set up when meter changed, although saying that my father-in-law at 90 had smart meters fitted and they walked off without relighting the pilot light on the boiler and left him with no heating.

You’ve answered your own thoughts. These people are “meter changers” with little training and low pay not engineers.

It is so wrong to con elderly people to having smart meters they don’t understand.

 

[ericmark]

It is so wrong to con elderly people to having smart meters they don’t understand.

It seems it is all a big con, I watch the advert for smart meters, with a guy looking like Freddy from bread clapping hands and turning lights on/off, and wonder how it got accepted, likely as a government advert, so seeing how government advert clearly tell lies, I treat all government adverts in the same way, including things about global warming.

I simply ignore all government adverts as I know they lie.

 

[Guitarguy]

I don’t like that smart meters can be turned off remotely when there’s some sort of problem with the account etc, imagine leaving an elderly person to try and go through all the call centre malarkey with their energy provider to try and get their power back on and all the stress this could cause them?
The government shouldn’t be pushing smart meters like they are

 

[ericmark]

I would agree, it seems in some EU countries you are given a maximum you can draw, if you exceed the agreed maximum the power is cut, which has caused problems as originally it was a fuse, so a overload for a small time was OK, as long as it was for a short time, but with the smart meters exceeding limit for even a short time resulted in lost of supply.

In a way we also have 60 to 100 amp fuses, but we don't pay an extra standing charge for a 100 amp fuse over a 60 amp fuse, and it seems the limits started much lower than 60 amp so at a level it would be easy to exceed.

In a effort to get us to accept smart meters the DNO has said the cut out will not be used, however is so, then why fit it? And they clearly lie about what it all means, when they show some one switching lights off and on by clapping his hands. So why should we believe what they say.

I have read about some one loosing their supply in error, and mistakes do happen, but when a guy knocks on the door and says sorry going to cut your electric if in error you have a chance to say sorry that is not me. But when done by remote, assuming in error, you would have no warning just loss of power.

Vulnerable lists don't help if in error, and in my case to ring up would first have to find a phone, as cordless would stop working and then find a number as internet would also be down, and the two phone boxes in the village one is a defibrillator station and the other a book swap scheme, neither have phones in them.

 

[cwhaley]

I would agree, it seems in some EU countries you are given a maximum you can draw, if you exceed the agreed maximum the power is cut, which has caused problems as originally it was a fuse, so a overload for a small time was OK, as long as it was for a short time, but with the smart meters exceeding limit for even a short time resulted in lost of supply.

In a way we also have 60 to 100 amp fuses, but we don't pay an extra standing charge for a 100 amp fuse over a 60 amp fuse, and it seems the limits started much lower than 60 amp so at a level it would be easy to exceed.

In a effort to get us to accept smart meters the DNO has said the cut out will not be used, however is so, then why fit it? And they clearly lie about what it all means, when they show some one switching lights off and on by clapping his hands. So why should we believe what they say.

I have read about some one loosing their supply in error, and mistakes do happen, but when a guy knocks on the door and says sorry going to cut your electric if in error you have a chance to say sorry that is not me. But when done by remote, assuming in error, you would have no warning just loss of power.

Vulnerable lists don't help if in error, and in my case to ring up would first have to find a phone, as cordless would stop working and then find a number as internet would also be down, and the two phone boxes in the village one is a defibrillator station and the other a book swap scheme, neither have phones in them.

I'm immediately thinking of those who depend on an electrical connection to maintain use of medical machinery (pressure monitors, glucometers, inhaler machines, etc.) I imagine many have back-up batteries, but if the dispute was on-going and a resident had to wait for a district nurse visit to raise the alarm that is quite worrying.

I know those 'vulnerable lists' do exist for other reasons, but they are often full of errors as you say, or out-of-date.

 

[ericmark]

As far as I am aware my mother was not on the vulnerable list, but since she had dementia and only one leg, she was unlikely have been able to correct herself. However the call centre was auto informed if there was a loss of power, I had to ring up call centre before I worked on her electrics to tell them it was going off, the batteries in the alarm were good enough to get it to call the call centre.

As to how quickly they could resolve the problem I don't know. Their first contact was me, so only if I did not respond would they call social services or police etc.

So all that is required is for battery back up to last until ambulance arrives. Although there have been reports of that taking a very long time with ambulances queuing outside hospitals.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It seems it is all a big con, I watch the advert for smart meters, with a guy looking like Freddy from bread clapping hands and turning lights on/off, and wonder how it got accepted, likely as a government advert, so seeing how government advert clearly tell lies, I treat all government adverts in the same way, including things about global warming.

He is supposed to be a look alike/ sound alike for Albert Einstein.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm immediately thinking of those who depend on an electrical connection to maintain use of medical machinery (pressure monitors, glucometers, inhaler machines, etc.) I imagine many have back-up batteries, but if the dispute was on-going and a resident had to wait for a district nurse visit to raise the alarm that is quite worrying.

As you go on to say, there are what are meant to be registers of such people, not only to minimise the risk of them being deliberately 'cut off' but also so that they can be provided with generator supplies in the event of protracted ('accidental') power cuts - however, as you also say, such systems are not foolproof.

I don't know if one can believe them, but suppliers have apparently said that they will not use the 'remote cut off facility' of 'smart' meters. If true, I doubt that is primarily due to anything particularly humanitarian or public-spirited but, rather, through fear of legal liability. Sudden and unexpected loss (or sudden re-instatement) of an electricity supply can result in injury (possibly even death) of even ordinary 'non-vulnerable' people. When that happens accidentally as a result of a 'power cut', then those are essentially unavoidable risks which we have to accept, but if they resulted from deliberate human action, and resulted in injury or death, there could be scope for litigation, or perhaps even prosecution.

Of course, 'smart' meters merely make it easier for suppliers to 'cut off' consumers, but they can do it (including 'by mistake') even without such meters.

I personally don't see the (current) point in 'smart' meters (hence regard their deployment as an incredible waste of money), although they may come to have value (in a good few decades from now) if/when there is widespread deployment of 'smart appliances' with which they can interact. However, in the meantime, I think that people are probably getting over-concerned about the perceived 'risks' of having them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

You have to bear in mind that smart meters are being installed on the orders of the government; not the DNOs or suppliers; so the government might do whatever they are capable of doing.

 

[JohnW2]

You have to bear in mind that smart meters are being install at the orders of the government; not the DNOs or suppliers; so the government might do whatever they are capable of doing.

What sort of 'doing' are you thinking about? - you're surely not thinking that politicians, themselves, will be disconnecting people's supplies, are you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

As I said - whatever they are capable of doing.




On the other hand then - why are they being installed?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

On the other hand then - why are they being installed?

It's called progress. The same reason they are installing remotely readable water meters - so the reading process can be automated, obviating the need for someone to knock at your door, hoping to catch you in, in order to manually read your meters.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Why is the government bothered about meter reading?