On Panorama last night.....

[joe-90]

.... they interviewed a German out-of-hours- GP Who works in London.

Do you know what he earns?



£5000 per week. He says he can't earn that in a month in Germany.

Is our economy so strong that we can afford to pay more than 4 times what the germans pay?


joe

 

[Brightness]

Blardy hell, no wonder none of the GP's I know mind working OOH!!!!

My youngest (15) is a straight A grade student and wants to be a Physiotherapist - methinks he is going to be cajoled into becoming a GP instead, then he can buy Mummy a nice Lotus Elise to play with.....

 

[Thermo]

its a damn sight stronger than the german economy.

bear in mind hes a gp, hes in london, so hell be on a higher rate, with a london weighting. On top of that hes out of hours which is unsocial hours, which the vast majority of gps dont want to do. |Why do you think a german gp ends up doing it!

 

[Brightness]

Thermo, our GP's here used to take it in turns to run the OOH service and didn't mind at all - they'd probably end up being on call one night a month if that.

It also meant that if there was a follow up the next day then they could converse with each other about it via telephone or in person. We live in a rural / semi rural area and it is covered by 5 surgeries.


The PCT took the OOH service out of their hands and now all the staffing is done by an agency and tbh the care is nowhere near as good as it was with the local GP's (most of which I knew through my previous jobs) & the communication is virtually non existant except whatever that doctor chooses to put on the computer

 

[JulieL/B]

.... they interviewed a German out-of-hours- GP Who works in London.

Do you know what he earns?



£5000 per week.
joe

So what?
We have a national shortage of GP's, Dr's and nurses - there are agencies that have to try and recruit from abroad to provide a service here.

If I wanted to I could obtain extra hours that are extremely well paid via agencies - but I work enough hours as it is!
Time outside of work is more important to me than the money these days!

Maybe you should go and do a medical degree eh Joe - with the degree and all of the additional training it would take to become a GP - I'd say you'd be ok for the job in about 9 - 10 years

 

[joe-90]

When I was a kid the GP did their own late calls. They earned about the same rate as a Deputy Head Teacher.

£5000 per week is ludicrous.

The reason that we are short of doctors is that we train them and then they clear off to America or Canada to work.

Then we poach doctors from other countries to fill the shortfall.

Why should the Polish people train a doctor so that we can pay them £5000 per week?

Why should we train doctors that never work in the NHS?

Only 1 student that applies for Med School out of 6 gets in, there is no shortage of applicants.

What should happen is that the students who are willing to sign a contract to work in this country for 15 years should be the ones chosen. If the others want to work in America - let them train in America.

No wonder the NHS is closing down.

BTW, most of a GPs training is paid work.


joe

 

[Nige F]

It`s no use standing on the seat -the chlamidia in here can jump 6 feet Welkomski to you allski

 

[hermes]

BTW, most of a GPs training is paid work.

My friend at uni did 5 years training to be a gp and we both used to do factory work in the hols to earn money. He wasn't paid for being at uni.

 

[Brightness]

BTW, most of a GPs training is paid work.

You mean after the five years they spend at Uni? I should think so too!!!!
The NHS only starts to pay Junior Dr's after they have graduated from Uni. I really don't know of anyone who would be willing to work for five years for free do you? That is the five years after graduating from Uni of course - they still have their student loans to pay back, same as everyone else!

Only after that five years can they then choose which specialist subject they want to go into, be it general surgery, brain surgery or becoming a GP!

I have known many junior doctors over the years and I know one young lad almost had a nervous breakdown after being on call in the hospital for seven days - that meant being expected to do a regular shift and also attending calls whenever his bleeper went off, with very little sleep in between.

I also know a guy who wanted to be a GP but couldn't afford the whole uni/training lark so he qualified as a Pharmacist first and earned some money working for an agency (good money) then went back to Uni.

When he finished Uni he still had to work on his 'days off' to be able to continue his training. He is now a fully qualified hospital doctor but I think that these men and women deserve every penny they get.

Joe90, would you be prepared to give up about 10 years of your life for very little remiss & a heck of a lot of hard work to become a GP?

 

[pickles]

Gp's in the uk are paid somewhere between £100,000 £120,000 per year. They don't work as hard as hospital doctors or have the same levels of specialist knowledge and they end up with an interest in their practice that is worth a considerable sum on retirement and that's before they get a pension. Personally i'm not shedding any tears over their terms and conditions however hard they may have trained to qualify

Primary care by GP's is significantly poorer than the levels of care in europe and particularily the USA. The system is driven almost solely by the need to restrict costs, you are likely to be treated later and precribed cheaper older drugs

However "nice" they may be I would personally never take anything a GP says at face value without a second opinion even if it's just internet based

 

[Brightness]

Pickles, I think you may have taken what I have posted the wrong way.

After University and then five years in a hospital environment a doctor can choose which area he/she wants to specialise in - it is their choice entirely whether they wish to go into General practice, stay in a hospital environment or go onto become a brain surgeon.

I am sure that if you have a disagreeance with your GP and wanted a second opinion then in most cases they would agree. I know they do in my surgery and every one that I have had anything to do with.

It is also not only the choice of the GP whether they treat you with older or newer drugs, they only have so much money in the pot to go around. Knowing as much as I do, I think that sometimes the older drugs are actually the better ones. Look at the recent cases involving Vioxx. When it was launched on presecription it was hailed as a wonder drug - four years later it has been withdrawn and people are suing the drug company right left and centre because of the ill effects they have suffered from taking it.

Amazing really how many people did a song and dance routine because one or two GP's wouldn't prescribe it, bet they're not going in and apologising and thanking the same GP's now....

 

[joe-90]

You mean after the five years they spend at Uni? I should think so too!!!!
The NHS only starts to pay Junior Dr's after they have graduated from Uni. I really don't know of anyone who would be willing to work for five years for free do you? That is the five years after graduating from Uni of course - they still have their student loans to pay back, same as everyone else!


Joe90, would you be prepared to give up about 10 years of your life for very little remiss & a heck of a lot of hard work to become a GP?

No student gets paid at Uni. GPs get paid as soon as they finish Uni like everyone else. That means they are paid to train. Most GPs are less than useless anyway. I'd love to be paid £2500 per week to ogle female furry bits - show me a bloke that wouldn't.

In fact the male GP has such an abysmal record at dealing with naked females they now have to have a chaperone to protect the patient! Male GPs should treat male patients only - they can't be trusted with women.


joe

 

[Slogger]

sack them all and bring in polish gps for 200 quid a week they can do plumbing too


bucha con men our gps way over paid

whats the matter with 36 k a year

 

[pickles]

Pickles, I think you may have taken what I have posted the wrong way.

No I think not. My experience of GP services in this country is that they are second rate compared to private health care. I was also just making the point that they are extremely well paid for what they do and in general nowadays don't work the long hours they used to

I am not making a personal criticism of GP's in general, I think many of them are dedicated to their work but I think they work in a system that doesn't have the best interests of patients at heart

I have learned not to take what they say as gospel because I have had the misfortune to have had poor advice on number of occasions culminating in a family member going undiagnosed for some years with a life threatening condition . I think this sort of thing happens partly because, however well meaning the medic may be, the system puts them under pressure of time and money which compromises their technical skills . It is designed to control access to health care on the grounds of cost .

There is a difference in the approach of GP's in the UK compared with the rest of the world. In the Uk if you present with symptoms like fatigue and depression, which are likely to be present in a variety of serious conditions the response is usually that the GP will assume the problem is psychological and treat it accordingly until proven otherwise. This is cheap and takes up little time. In better funded and privately funded systems the approach is the opposite, there is much greater empahsis on things like basic bloods and they will try to eliminate any physical reasons for the symptoms before they make a diagnosis.

The point is that the agenda of General Practitioners and the NHS is coloured very strongly by the need to control time and cost. Unfortunately that means that you have to take what is said to you on the basis that it is sometimes the cheapest advice not the best advice

 

[JulieL/B]

I'd love to be paid £2500 per week to ogle female furry bits


joe

Errr if you really think medicine is all about female furry bits - you are showing a gross lack of understanding for what is involved within the remit of medicine ..............but then you would you're not medically trained.