On Panorama last night.....

[homertimpson]

It all comes down to the fact that people are not prepared to pay for the system they actually need, they want to pay low levels of personal tax and then have to suffer the consequences

Not necessarily true. The Government is always shooting its mouth off with reference to 'how many extra millions' it is ploughing into the Health Service.

Unfortunately, with the incompetence, corruption and ever growing army of buraucrats [that Blair has been directly responsible for] - our hard earned taxation is going into an ever deepening black hole.

Were the money raised from the hard working UK taxpayer ever to reach the front line of the Health Service you may actually see the Health Service right up there with the best in the world.

But, when we are governed as we are at the moment [by a Party whose own Treasurer is completely and utterly unaware where the Party's funds are coming from ] it is little wonder the Health Service and other vital services never get the money they are supposed to.

Homer

 

[pickles]

It all comes down to the fact that people are not prepared to pay for the system they actually need, they want to pay low levels of personal tax and then have to suffer the consequences

Not necessarily true. The Government is always shooting its mouth off with reference to 'how many extra millions' it is ploughing into the Health Service.

Unfortunately, with the incompetence, corruption and ever growing army of buraucrats [that Blair has been directly responsible for] - our hard earned taxation is going into an ever deepening black hole.

Were the money raised from the hard working UK taxpayer ever to reach the front line of the Health Service you may actually see the Health Service right up there with the best in the world.

But, when we are governed as we are at the moment [by a Party whose own Treasurer is completely and utterly unaware where the Party's funds are coming from ] it is little wonder the Health Service and other vital services never get the money they are supposed to.

Homer

I don't agree with that. Margaret Thatcher and 17 years of Tory government taught people in this country to have unrealistic expectations about the level of tax they need to pay to have the services they want. No government is willing to face reality because of the political cost of doing so. That's why we have so much indirect taxation and trash fund raising like speed cameras and traffic wardens

There may well be beaurocracy but it only grows where there are things that need to be administered. Like it or not it's the unglamourous back office work that pays the wages and does the vast pile of paperwork It's an easy target and a convenient scapegoat for the ills of the NHS. I have known a good few people in the civil service and NHS admin who were every bit as dedicated as the front line staff and it's unfair to dump the blame on them

Personally I see a sick underfunded system that relies to heavily on targets and performance criteria as a substitute for proper resources

As far as labours funding is concerned you may be right but i'd rather have them in charge than the previous lot who were absolutely rotten to the core by anyones standards. People have got short memorys.........Jonathan Aitken, Neil Hamilton, back to basics, Geoffrey Archer, spare me please

I don't see incompetence or corruption on anything like that scale with this government and i'm really not sure exactly where your black hole is.

All governments get slagged off after a few years in power, they are no worse than usual. They only thing that they can really be criticised for is wasting our money trying to sort out Iraq and even that was at least done on principled grounds however misguided

 

[homertimpson]

Like it or not it's the unglamourous back office work that pays the wages and does the vast pile of paperwork

Management paying the wages - absolutely no chance whatsoever!!
The number of managers in the NHS is growing at almost 2.5 times the rate of the increase of doctors and nurses,
and there are 4.5 more managers per nurse in the NHS than in the private sector. There's a blatant misuse of our taxation - never mind the inefficiency.

NHS 1999 2004 % Increase
Doctors 94,953 117,036 23.3
Nurses 329,637 397,515 20.6
Managers 24,287 37,726 55.3

As far as labours funding is concerned you may be right but i'd rather have them in charge than the previous lot who were absolutely rotten to the core by anyones standards. People have got short memorys.........Jonathan Aitken, Neil Hamilton, back to basics, Geoffrey Archer, spare me please

You're right there - people do have short memories - they may by now also have forgotten the Ecclestone saga, Mandleson [twice], Blunkett [twice]
and good old Tessa "I've remortgaged my house about 10 times in 10 years and repaid it all back within days of the loan being taken out - all above board......we'll,
Mr Berlusconi assured my husband is was"
Ahh yes ... good old New Labour

I don't see incompetence or corruption on anything like that scale with this government

So when the Labour Party Treasurer has no idea that millions of pounds are being passed around under his nose [and, in fact, that he was deliberately kept in the dark] - that is of no concern???

Homer

 

[pickles]

You will like this link. A foreign perspective on NHS management

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/179_11_011203/jam10562_fm.html

I'm not in favour of any political party, they are all idiots, but I genuinely do not think this government's in the same leaugue as the last lot, Aitken and Archer lying under oath in the High Court and Hamilton taking cash bungs

Don't you remember Alan B'stard

 

[Thermo]

i bet theres not many managers being made redundent while the hospital staff are. Still its better under labour, must be i mean all the hospital trusts running themselves now, oh there all in debt as well.

shambles