Open fire looks cool.....but it ain't hot!

gasbanni said:
I didn't say it couldn't be done by a diy er, people seem to be under the impression it's an easy diy task. It's isn't, I not saying it's rocket science but like a lot of things there's far more involved than would first appear. A for instance is the checking of a flue how many diy ers know how to pressure test a flue rather than just carry out a smoke bomb test ?
It has to be signed off....I don't sign anything off if I haven't done the work ......why would I put my neck in the noose for anyone else ?

Regarding your comment on professionals and poor work your absolutely right unfortunately there's no register in any trade regarding unsupervised conscientiousness! !

Worcester bosch boiler oh dear oh dear.......gas safe inspector quote " worceter bosch are living on a reputation they got 20 years ago."
Lost a quote because the customer wanted a Worcester bosch boiler fitting and I refused to fit one, payed £800 more than my quote for fitting a superb boiler !
Google reviews for Worcester bosch .......
Click to expand...

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

WB are a good brand, recommended by Which, for what that is worth. The engineer who last serviced my boiler said they were very reliable, he services loads of them, reckoned I'd have issues with hard water deposits at some stage as I have very hard water. I had a 3 year warranty from a non accredited installer, the accredited one wanted to charge too much, probably to cover the accreditation fees (a bit of a con I suspect).

When I was choosing a boiler, I found that gas engineers all said totally different things. One constant statement is that modern boilers are more complex and do not last as long as older ones. My original boiler was an old floor mounted job, ugly, inefficient, at least 20 years old and working.
 
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A good brand ? Really.

What happens is the plastic hydro blocks become porous and water squirts out, it's very fine and I mean very fine you can see several minute jets of water squirting out. They're that fine sometimes you can only see them with an led light shining directly on them. You can see the water dripping down easy enough but where it's coming from is a different story.

A little habit of mine is to regularly ask parts suppliers which manufacturers parts they're selling a lot of WB always tops the list !
The exact phrase for WB hydroblocks sales was "hundreds of them !"

The good thing is the parts are cheap compared with other manufacturers.
Don't take my word for it Google WB boiler reviews.

Your quite correct different installers recommend different boilers for a variety of reasons. The main one I suspect it's more to do with the installers familiarity with a particular brand plush availability and cost.

Most manufacturers now use the plastic hydro blocks or are moving to them cost cutting exercise I'm afraid.
 
WalksWithTurkeys said:
WB are a good brand, recommended by Which, for what that is worth.
Click to expand...

Plastic sh!tboxes living on reputation from a bygone age. Very well marketed though, hence the internet is full of comments like yours. Having said that, all modern boilers are pants compared to the old stuff in terms of reliability, as you rightly noted.
 
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"According to a Which? poll of nearly 3,000 boiler owners, Vaillant and Worcester Bosch are the most dependable brands on the market. Both manufacturers have been popular choices for a number of years, and were backed up by excellent customer satisfaction score of 83%. Crucially, only 29% of Vaillant customers said that they had experienced problems with their boiler – the lowest score of any brand. Worcester scored 32%."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/.../How-to-find-the-best-new-boiler-for-you.html

They came near the top in several years too.

I asked in trade forums, and gas engineers disagree almost as much as economists, albeit they are more useful.
 
WalksWithTurkeys said:
"According to a Which? poll of nearly 3,000 boiler owners, Vaillant and Worcester Bosch are the most dependable brands on the market. Both manufacturers have been popular choices for a number of years, and were backed up by excellent customer satisfaction score of 83%. Crucially, only 29% of Vaillant customers said that they had experienced problems with their boiler – the lowest score of any brand. Worcester scored 32%."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/.../How-to-find-the-best-new-boiler-for-you.html

They came near the top in several years too.

I asked in trade forums, and gas engineers disagree almost as much as economists, albeit they are more useful.
Click to expand...

I've worked on hundreds every year, for over 25 years. I speak to dozens of gas fitters every week. I bow to your superior knowledge. All hail Google.
 
mitch66 said:
WalksWithTurkeys said:
"According to a Which? poll of nearly 3,000 boiler owners, Vaillant and Worcester Bosch are the most dependable brands on the market. Both manufacturers have been popular choices for a number of years, and were backed up by excellent customer satisfaction score of 83%. Crucially, only 29% of Vaillant customers said that they had experienced problems with their boiler – the lowest score of any brand. Worcester scored 32%."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/.../How-to-find-the-best-new-boiler-for-you.html

They came near the top in several years too.

I asked in trade forums, and gas engineers disagree almost as much as economists, albeit they are more useful.
Click to expand...

I've worked on hundreds every year, for over 25 years. I speak to dozens of gas fitters every week. I bow to your superior knowledge. All hail Google.
Click to expand...
He is right. "Which" is our best friend. They will ensure that we are never short of work and a premium product deserves premium repair bills
 
600rob said:
however unless you’re standing right next to it, the fire does very little to warm up the room as most of the heat goes straight up the chimney!
Click to expand...
The problem with open fire is 83% heat goes straight out of the chimney and 17% into the room whereas log burner is only 17% goes straight up the flue and 83% back into the room, I have also put an cast iron fire back behind the log burner throwing 30% more heat back into the room and what a difference:)
 
WalksWithTurkeys said:
Ah well, I guess the >10,000 boiler owners surveyed by Which must have lied. And done so for at least 5 years. Damn, wish I'd bought [insert brand] instead of a POS. :)

http://www.boilerguide.co.uk/consumer-magazine-praises-worcester-bosch-boilers

Recent surveys also include ratings by boiler engineers and it looks like they must have been complete nit wits:

http://www.my-plumber.co.uk/blog/best-boiler-brands/

Thank goodness for sanity on this forum. :whistle:
Click to expand...

Why do you think I think worcester bosch boilers are bad ?
1. Lying 2. Emotional irrational response 3. Wind up -want to upset you on your choice 4. Based on experience and knowledge within the trade.
In the last six months I've taken out two WB boilers less than five years old it was at the customers insistence ....They were that fed up of them continually breaking down....I didn't fit them by the way.
Want to know about the one that was glowing red hot on the outside panelling ......so bad the gas safe inspector Riddor'ed the model ?........
It's a good job the parts are so cheap .........must be cheap cos they're so cheap for them to buy !
 
Generally speaking, I find that both the British and Scandinavians construct some fine quality stoves and boilers though some will have their personal preference, I wouldn't hesitate to install north European kit. Open fires do look grand and if used on a daily basis will heat the room but to install a new fire does have some pretty unpalatable ventilation requirements.
 
Thanks for all the replies related to the original post.

I'll do a some research into the options and what modifications would be required to install a wood burner.

Cheers
Rob
 
FiremanT said:
How did this thread go from a query on coal fore output to Worcester Pish?

Anyway, FWIW I don;t understand the fashion for stoves. Bit if you go for one make it a decent one with ducted air intake, as previously mentioned.

My personal preference is a Jetmaster open fire or inset stove:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/OrWpy1U6RXvw
TxJKIWoF8a1PPkBYonOVcixowH85rxUlL93UHqLE9vF8MsZfSQ7d/file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/c...I2mUXVHmTrbGwbqM2QJ82dXpZ43OW0qTv9mgTWOF/file
Click to expand...

Inset fires are nice but rather expensive. Yes, stoves are a fashion, and their time will pass. However, I own a stove and I think they are wonderful albeit a luxury. They are expensive, but sitting in front of a hot stove on a cold winter's evening is rather nice. I light mine at the weekend. I would not use one for normal heating, too much faff, too much wood is needed.
 
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