Outside socket protection

[bernardgreen]

but, again, what has that got to do with the minimum CSA of cable in a 'power circuit'?

Very little but a lot to do with the distinctions between power and lighting circuits in the regulations.

 

[JohnW2]

Very little but a lot to do with the distinctions between power and lighting circuits in the regulations.

Well, one of the problems with that Table (in its previous form) was that nowhere in the regs was there any explanation, let alone a definition of what those two circuits were, or what 'the distinction' between them was! The original BS7671:2018 added a note to that Table indicating that "lighting circuits" might also supply things like fans, but that's all!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

my understanding way back in the 1960's was

Lighting circuits had only hard wired lights, no sockets to plug equipment into

I never came across a socket on a lighting circuit, apart from maybe an electric clock socket.

Power circuits had only sockets for items that had to be plugged into. Nothing hard wired.

I disagree, there were some items hard wired, such as 'geysers'.

Plugging an electric iron into a bayonet lamp holder hanging from a ceiling rose was at odds with the rules

Illegal maybe, but widely disregarded. you could even buy BC to 5amp two pin adaptors to allow you to do that.

I also have vague recollections that in some houses power and lighting might have had separate meters with the cost of a kWh being more than the cost of a lighting kWh

I never came across that, but maybe it depended on the area of the country.

 

[SUNRAY]

I never came across a socket on a lighting circuit, apart from maybe an electric clock socket.

Our 1951 council house had 5x 15A socket radial in 3 bedrooms, lounge & dining room. Upstairs lighting circuit with a 5A socket in kitchen and downstairs lighting circuit with a 5A socket in lounge

 

[winston1]

Unfair question. It is the same colour as his unicorn.

It is also off topic and something he should know anyway.

 

[JohnW2]

I never came across a socket on a lighting circuit, apart from maybe an electric clock socket.

The house in which I was 'brought up' had a number of 5A sockets on (5A) lighting circuits. The two or three 15A sockets were on 15A 'power' circuits. There were also sometimes things dangling from B22 adaptors (again, obviously, on 'lighting circuits').

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

my understanding way back in the 1960's was

Lighting circuits had only hard wired lights, no sockets to plug equipment into

Power circuits had only sockets for items that had to be plugged into. Nothing hard wired.

Plugging an electric iron into a bayonet lamp holder hanging from a ceiling rose was at odds with the rules

I also have vague recollections that in some houses power and lighting might have had separate meters with the cost of a kWh being more than the cost of a lighting kWh

Even back in the 30’s sockets could be found on lighting circuits. Usually a 2 or 5 amp 2 pin on the upstairs landing and a 2 pin 5 amp in the smallest bedroom. The other bedrooms and the reception rooms all had one 15amp socket on power circuits.

 

[securespark]

Bernard,

I am re-acquainting myself with the 13th Edition, 1955.

There is reference to "non-portable" appliances, immersion heaters and water heaters.
Spurs on a ring can feed one fixed appliance.

 

[Astra99]

I believe every outside socket should be isolated inside the property with a double pole isolator. The British climate is wet, and rain getting into external electrics will cause nuisance RCD tripping at best. Also, your external socket could be used illicitly by anyone! What the eye don't see...........

 

[winston1]

I believe every outside socket should be isolated inside the property with a double pole isolator. The British climate is wet, and rain getting into external electrics will cause nuisance RCD tripping at best. Also, your external socket could be used illicitly by anyone! What the eye don't see...........

What you believe is your choice. At my prievous house I fitted two outside sockets without isolators and never rain getting into them over 10 years. The secret is to install them properly with the appropriate silicon sealing. My present house which I've been in 18 months I inherited 2 outside sockets without isolators and they have been no problem.
Never had a problem with illicit use and both houses have outside sockets on the front. I suppose itdepends on area!

 

[JohnW2]

I believe every outside socket should be isolated inside the property with a double pole isolator. The British climate is wet, and rain getting into external electrics will cause nuisance RCD tripping at best.

I would say that your 'belief' corresponds with what most people would regard as desirable/sensible, for the reason you give - but there is certainly no regulatory 'requirement' for such an isolator.

Also, your external socket could be used illicitly by anyone! What the eye don't see...........

One often hears that said. However, I'm intrigued to know what people think that others might plug into a socket on the outside wall of their house! I suppose it's a little different if the socket is in a distant part of the garden, or in/on a remote outhouse - but I still wonder what it is that people fear my get illicitly plugged into it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I'm intrigued to know what people think that others might plug into a socket on the outside wall of their house! I

Electric vehicle car charger on a shared driveway. ( when the owner of the socket is not at home )

 

[JohnW2]

Electric vehicle car charger on a shared driveway. ( when the owner of the socket is not at home )

That's a very specific (and 'modern') case. People were worrying about others stealing electricity from their outside sockets long before anyone knew what an EV charger was!

Can you offer any answers to my question other than EV chargers?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

One often hears that said. However, I'm intrigued to know what people think that others might plug into a socket on the outside wall of their house! I suppose it's a little different if the socket is in a distant part of the garden, or in/on a remote outhouse - but I still wonder what it is that people fear my get illicitly plugged into it!

I have around five sockets scattered around my garden, plus two water taps. I can isolate them internally, but I have never felt the need in regards to theft.

 

[JohnW2]

I have around five sockets scattered around my garden, plus two water taps. I can isolate them internally, but I have never felt the need in regards to theft.

Very similar here. In fact, I have more than five sockets, and more than two water taps, scattered around my garden. Like you, I can isolate them internally if I want to but, in the case of the electricity, have never felt the need to (other than during maintenance!).

The water supply does get 'isolated internally' during the coldest Winter months (when I drain some of the external plumbing), but that's obviously for a reason other than a fear of 'theft of water'

Kind Regards, John