Painting over glossy doorframes with satinwood - best primer to avoid having to sand?

[alligatorlizard]

I want to repaint the doorframes throughout my house with either "Dulux Diamond Satinwood" and "Johnstone's Aqua Guard satin"

Looks like they were originally painted with an oil based gloss, as they're a bit yellow...

I understand that a water based satin paint will not stick well over a previous oil-based gloss, so I will need to use a primer. One thing I'd really like to avoid though is any sanding! All the corners and edges and angles that make up each doorframe look like they'd be VERY fiddly to sand...

Initially I was going to go for Johnstone's Aqua Guard primer - but from the data sheet it seems to suggest I'd need to sand the existing paint.

Would Zinsser 123 would make life easier here as it doesn't require any preparatory sanding?

Or any other suggestions for easiest way to repaint these doorframes without even having to look at another piece of sandpaper?

 

[sparkwright]

You really need to sand.
Just get on and do it quickly, use small bits for the fiddly bits.
You don't have to make a meal of it, but you do need to scratch the shine off every bit.
You'll soon get the hang of it - the quicker you do it, the quicker it's done.

Be sure to brush off the dust well, and wipe over the surface with dry clean cloths or kitchen roll to pick up remaining dust.

If you don't sand, you risk it all peeling off in the future.
And you will not like it.

 

[alligatorlizard]

You really need to sand.
Just get on and do it quickly, use small bits for the fiddly bits.
You don't have to make a meal of it, but you do need to scratch the shine off every bit.
You'll soon get the hang of it - the quicker you do it, the quicker it's done.

Be sure to brush off the dust well, and wipe over the surface with dry clean cloths or kitchen roll to pick up remaining dust.

If you don't sand, you risk it all peeling off in the future.
And you will not like it.

I know this is all good advice...

But from the data sheets, it seems like Zinsser 123 (or BIN) would:
1) stick just fine to the old gloss paint without any preparatory sanding
2) present a surface on which either the Dulux or the Johnstone satinwood would stick to without risk of future peeling

I understand the need for sanding if you're going to apply the satinwood straight over the gloss. But if using a primer which explicitly states it will stick to glossy surfaces without sanding - why sand?

 

[michealangelo]

It's usually suggested that sanding or a light sand ....a key ...is the best thing to do with glossy surfaces before applying a primer coat ..and that is probably best even with the newer primers

However ......certain primers are going to do the job of sticking to glossy paint ...sanded or not ...than others

If you are not going to give the glossy surface a sand I would suggest ...

Zinser Cover Stain .....oil based but dries quickly , 2 hours or so

Zinser Red BIN .....shellac based .......dry in 30 minutes

Zinser Bullseye 123 .....water based ....1 hour

Crown PX4 .....water based .....dry in 2 hours or so

There are others but you want to be looking for an ADHESIVE type primer ......Crown PX4 for example

The most important thing with using a newer all surface primer .....the ones above ..is to let it harden off and form a strong barrier between shiney gloss and new paint system

Therfore whilst most of these primers dry very quickly it's best to wait overnight before putting on your next coat which is the undercoat

Or the new paint finish ....satin , eggshell etc .....may flake off


Essentially make sure the specialist primer you use is listed for glossy surfaces .......and let it dry overnight to harden .....before you proceed

This first primer is a sacrificial coat , to bond the surface

If you are lucky it may cover well but it's always good to get on a decent undercoat ......and generally 2 coats ......of water or oil based type ...to ensure the gloss is obliterated

 

[michealangelo]

I know this is all good advice...

But from the data sheets, it seems like Zinsser 123 (or BIN) would:
1) stick just fine to the old gloss paint without any preparatory sanding
2) present a surface on which either the Dulux or the Johnstone satinwood would stick to without risk of future peeling

I understand the need for sanding if you're going to apply the satinwood straight over the gloss. But if using a primer which explicitly states it will stick to glossy surfaces without sanding - why sand?

I personally would never apply satinwood over gloss or indeed over previous satinwood

Satinwood , one coat gloss , self undercoating gloss , solo etc etc .....all these paints claim to cut out the need for an undercoat but I think it's always best to prime ...if glossy ..then undercoat before your satinwood

A trained eye can normally pick out the difference

I would rather undercoat and one coat with satinwood than 2 coats of satinwood

 

[alligatorlizard]

I personally would never apply satinwood over gloss or indeed over previous satinwood

Satinwood , one coat gloss , self undercoating gloss , solo etc etc .....all these paints claim to cut out the need for an undercoat but I think it's always best to prime ...if glossy ..then undercoat before your satinwood

A trained eye can normally pick out the difference

I would rather undercoat and one coat with satinwood than 2 coats of satinwood

Just to clarify, are you saying this should be fine with no sanding: 1 coat of Zinsser 123 primer over the old gloss, leave to dry overnight, then 1 coat (2 if needed) of Dulux/Johnstone satinwood on top of this?

 

[michealangelo]

Just to clarify, are you saying this should be fine with no sanding: 1 coat of Zinsser 123 primer over the old gloss, leave to dry overnight, then 1 coat (2 if needed) of Dulux/Johnstone satinwood on top of this?

I would use an undercoat .....water based is fine ....between your zinser 123 and your satinwood

 

[alligatorlizard]

I would use an undercoat .....water based is fine ....between your zinser 123 and your satinwood

Ah, OK, that's exactly what I wasn't sure of (i.e. if it needed primer and undercoat) - thanks for clarifying So 3 coats, but possibly still preferable to sanding!!

 

[michealangelo]

Yes , your chosen primer ....zinser 123

Then your undercoat

Then you satinwood

Your undercoat and satinwood stages might involve TWO coats , depending on how well you think the job is looking ?

 

[opps]

I understand the need for sanding if you're going to apply the satinwood straight over the gloss. But if using a primer which explicitly states it will stick to glossy surfaces without sanding - why sand?

I do use BIN, but I always sand first.

A few years ago I was painting cabinets in a customer's house. The other decorators rolled BIN over the varnished doors (as a primer), insisting that no sanding was required. I was there for 2 weeks. Every door that they had painted had chips where the cleaner's vacuum cleaner "brushed" against the doors.

At an absolute minimum, I would recommend open weave pads such as

Contour Sanding Pads

Perfect results require proper preparation so, if you're prepping contoured surfaces like mouldings, pipes and fittings, choose these sanding pads. You'll find fine, medium and coarse grades in the pack. You can use these contour pads prior to applying primers, lacquers and finishing coats, and...

www.toolstation.com

You will get minimal dust but it will help to "key" the existing paint work.

 

[michealangelo]

I do use BIN, but I always sand first.

A few years ago I was painting cabinets in a customer's house. The other decorators rolled BIN over the varnished doors (as a primer), insisting that no sanding was required. I was there for 2 weeks. Every door that they had painted had chips where the cleaner's vacuum cleaner "brushed" against the doors.

At an absolute minimum, I would recommend open weave pads such as

Contour Sanding Pads

Perfect results require proper preparation so, if you're prepping contoured surfaces like mouldings, pipes and fittings, choose these sanding pads. You'll find fine, medium and coarse grades in the pack. You can use these contour pads prior to applying primers, lacquers and finishing coats, and...

www.toolstation.com

You will get minimal dust but it will help to "key" the existing paint work.

I think that's the best procedure if possible , I prefer these pads to the sponges