Part P Electrical Installation Certification

1.29 A third party could only sign a BS 7671:2001 Periodic Inspection Report or similar. The Report would indicate that electrical safety tests had been carried out on the installation which met BS 7671:2001 criteria, but it could not verify that the installation complied fully with BS 7671:2001 requirements – for example with regard to routing of hidden cables.
And neither could any other electrician employed by the LABC. There really is no difference there, so this is a complete red herring. To repeat that, just because someone is employed by the LABC instead of the homeowner, it does not magically make them capable of inspecting things (e.g. buried cables) that the homeowner employed one cannot.
The OP falls into the 3rd group, and the BCO has followed the rules and requested an EICR by their contracted inspector.
The LABC are being jobsworths, wanting extra for providing ... absolutely nothing of any material value whatsoever over and above what is already provided. As said, they may technically be right, but they are still being jobsworths of the worst kind.
And for this job, it's not as if there are even any hidden cables anyway.
The OP has installed a new circuit and the fee to get this inspected/tested is set by the LABC. The OP has a choice (as stated throughout this thread)
1 - pay up and get the job completed
or
2 - don't pay up not and leave the job incomplete
or
3 - make a fuss to those in charge of the jobsworth, or those in charge of those in charge, until they find someone who also agrees that it's a ridiculous example of jobsworthy behaviour and puts the LABC people in their place.

I think the first thing to do is to write to the LABC and ask specifically what they expect to get from a third party EICR that is not already in a third party EICR. The answer could be interesting. Either they'll admit "nothing", or they'll claim something which can be demonstrably shown to be "rubbish".
 
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As said, they may technically be right
They are.

Lobby to get the rules they work to changed if you wish but don't stop at electrics. Just have everything post inspected by homeowners and you could have very little LABC involvement at all.
 
As said, they may technically be right,
They are.
I think that we all agree that, in terms of strict box-ticking, that is true.
Lobby to get the rules they work to changed if you wish but don't stop at electrics. Just have everything post inspected by homeowners and you could have very little LABC involvement at all.
As I've said before, I'm keeping this discussion to electrics (and, more specifically, to the OP's electrics) but, in terms of that, there is no need for any 'lobbying' because in the OP's case the LA have already said that (without any change in the rules) they will accept "post inspection".

The work in question has already been 'post-inspected' - as I've said, by someone who is presumably 'qualified', probably experienced at undertaking EICRs and quite possibly a member of a CPS. The LA have said that they will accept such an EICR, but not the one which has already been undertaken/.provided but, instead, want an identical inspection (or two sockets and four lights/switches) to be repeated by a different electrician (quite possibly 'no better qualified') at a cost of £322.

I would also add that, in the case we are discussing, with all wiring being surface-mounted, there is really no difference between an EICR resulting from 'post inspection' and the EIC (from someone they didn't know) that the LA would have accepted in the first instance.

As far as I am concerned, this is not about rules and box-ticking but, rather, about what is 'reasonable' in the circumstances concerned

Kind Regards, John
 
As far as I am concerned, this is not about rules and box-ticking but, rather, about what is 'reasonable' in the circumstances concerned
I get that, but I disagree, as you know. The OP didn't follow the correct procedure and the LA could have taken a stricter line if they wished, but they didn't.
as I've said, by someone who is presumably 'qualified', probably experienced at undertaking EICRs and quite possibly a member of a CPS
There have been numerous examples on here of landlord checks being heavy criticised with the tester meeting the same requirements above. I've haven't heard the argument that "they are trained and experienced so their findings must be correct". I don't find it unreasonable at all that the LA want to retain some level of control over the process.
As I've said before, I'm keeping this discussion to electrics
I'm not. It is a reasonable extension of what is being discussed.
.
 
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I get that, but I disagree, as you know. The OP didn't follow the correct procedure and the LA could have taken a stricter line if they wished, but they didn't.
Yes, I understand your position - but it is what I regard as the 'box-ticking' approach. Obviously formally and legally correct, but not necessarily sensible or reasonable (in relation to electrical safety)
There have been numerous examples on here of landlord checks being heavy criticised with the tester meeting the same requirements above. I've haven't heard the argument that "they are trained and experienced so their findings must be correct". I don't find it unreasonable at all that the LA want to retain some level of control over the process.
That would be a reasonable argument if they actually had a meaningful degree of control but, as I've said, I don't believe that they actually do.

Assuming that (as was presumably the case) the person who undertook the EICR was reasonably 'qualified' and experienced (and quite possibly even a CPS member), had he done the work and issued an EIC the LA would undoubtedly have accepted it without question - and, as I've said, since the small amount of cable involved is all surface-mounted, there really is no difference at all between an EIC (undertaken immediately after the work) and and EICR undertaken slightly later.

I can 'understand' the LA's approach as a means of penalising the OP for not having followed the rules (effectively 'fining' him), but not as something which is sensible or reasonable in terms of electrical safety. In fact, I would probably regard it as more 'reasonable' if they accepted the EICR which had been done but also imposed a fine for the rule-breaking - at least that would be an 'honest' approach.
There have been numerous examples on here of landlord checks being heavy criticised with the tester meeting the same requirements above. I've haven't heard the argument that "they are trained and experienced so their findings must be correct".
As I've often said, including in this thread, my personal view is that those who undertake EICRs (particularly 'landlord' ones) should be in some way 'licensed' so to do, and their work should be rigorously audited/policed, so that there licences to undertake EICRs (maybe even paid electrical work of any sort) could be revoked when necessary.

As things are, it is not really possible for anyone (LA, landlord or anyone else) to have meaningful 'control' over selection of 'good' people to undertake electrical work or inspections. A person could be a CPS member with qualifications and experience 'coming out of their ears' (and may well even be able to produce some 'glowing references') yet undertake work or inspections unsatisfactorily. LA 'selection processes and vetting' are therefore not currently likely to be any guarantee of anything - particularly if, as per the material you linked to, in selecting people to undertake EICRs, t least some LAs give 70% of their 'selection weighting' to price, and much of the rest to 'administrative' matters!

I therefore do not think that the 'retaining control' argument hold much water.

Kind Regards, John
 
There is really nothing I can add. We just have different views, and that's ok.
That's clearly the case - and I also have nothing to add, either, having explained my view more than once.

As I just wrote, if it were being admitted that the LA were 'fining' the OP for breaking the rules (but accepted the existing EICR), I would probably not have anything like as much of a problem - but that's not what they are saying.

Kind Regards, John
 

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