Part P question - qualified but not registered

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A friend is a qualified electrician and has the 2391 Competence/Testing qualification, but is not registered with ELECSA or similar. This is because he doesn't do private work, so it's not worth the cost of joining.

My question is, if he does some electrical for me, would he be able to issue a certificate for the work without being registered?

Many Thanks
Martin
 
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You will need to apply to the council and pay their fee, but they should accept his certificate and his qualification as evidence that the work complies with Part P, without any further testing or checks by the council.

If the council wanted to be pedantic, then they may want additional evidence of the installers qualifications too, if he was not doing the install. But it will depend on the scope of the work.
 
would he be able to issue a certificate for the work without being registered?
Yes of course he can provide a CERTIFICATE for the work to say that it complies with BS7671.

Or are you asking about NOTIFYING the work? Not all work is notifiable, That is why SPark has asked
What does the work entail?

If the work is notifiable he has to be a member of a CPS scheme if he is to self-notify, and avoid the LABC's large fee.
 
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He can issue you with a BS7671 certificate whether you want to bother with notification or not (assuming the work is notifiable in the first place).
 
Yes I have done it. In my case work was because the occupant was disabled so free. However it took some persuading to get the LABC inspector to accept my signature. I also have 2391 and 2382 which did not impress the LABC inspector he relented when it was pointed out I also have a degree in electrical and electronic engineering which really should not have made a difference.

If the electrician issues a minor work or installation certificate and as this one has done tells you he is not a scheme member then even if the LABC is not told he has not done anything wrong. It is up to the owner to tell the LABC is some one does it for him then great but still the owner is responsible. The building inspector was very clear about that.
 
If the electrician issues a minor work or installation certificate and as this one has done tells you he is not a scheme member then even if the LABC is not told he has not done anything wrong.
Yes he has - HE has CARRIED OUT notifiable work and not notified.


It is up to the owner to tell the LABC is some one does it for him then great but still the owner is responsible.
No he isn't - because the OWNER did not CARRY OUT the work.


The building inspector was very clear about that.
The building inspector should try growing some brains, try substituting owner/householder/building manager/etc for every occurrence of "person carrying out the work" or similar in the Building Regulations, and see how much sense they then make.

It means what it says - the person carrying out the work.
 
We've had this before but -

is the definition of carrying out restricted to the person actually doing the deed?

Do Governments or Councils ever carry out something by letting the Civil Service or an outside contractor actually do it?



Can it really be expected that a non-registered electrician has to notify and pay for the notification (possibly weeks) before he starts the work or a householder to hand over several hundred pounds to the electrician (possibly weeks) before the work is started?
Are builders responsible for planning permission?
 
The regulations say "a person who intends to carry out building work." That doesn't mean every single person involved with working on a project, or they'd all have to be sending in notifications. It means the person who has the responsibility for instigating the works; anyone working under his direction is then, in legal terms, acting as agent for him.

So in this case, it would be the OP who is responsible for notification (if applicable), although as we all know few people are the slightest bit interested in whether odd jobs like this are notified anyway, so with the work done safely and even a BS7671 certificate supplied for it, the chances of anything ever coming of non-notification are about nil.
 
We've had this before ....
We have indeed ....
but - is the definition of carrying out restricted to the person actually doing the deed?
As I have both said and implied, I personally believe not. As you go on to ask (fairly rhetorically, I imagine!) ...
Do Governments or Councils ever carry out something by letting the Civil Service or an outside contractor actually do it?
... and that is but one of countless examples. Indeed, as we've also discussed before, even the person who has been engaged by a customer/client to 'carry out' work does not necessarily personally 'carry out' much, if any, of it!

Kind Regards, John
 
Thanks for all your replies, I need to go through them. The work is spot lights in a bathroom, and moving a shaver socket. The first spot light will use the existing light fitting, with two more feeding off the same circuit. I believe the shaver socket also comes off the main light fitting.
 
That may come under notifiable work, depending upon the precise locations within the bathroom:

notifiable.png


But unless you really want to throw away anything from £100 to £400, don't worry about it. Just get your electrician friend to give you his BS7671 certificate and keep it on file with your house papers.
 
Below are some of the Building Regulations with instances of "person carrying out the work" (or similar) replaced by "householder", "owner" etc.

It seems clear from the nonsense that then results e.g. "The owner of the building shall give an energy performance certificate for the building to the owner of the building" that when they talk about the responsibilities of "the person carrying out the work" they mean the person carrying out the work, not the householder or owner etc.

Which necessarily includes the responsibilities re notification.





12.—(6) A householder is not required to give a building notice or
deposit full plans where the work consists only of work—

(a) described in column 1 of the Table in Schedule 3 if the householder is a
person described in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Table;​


16.—( 2) Subject to paragraph (8), a householder shall not—

(a) cover up any excavation for a foundation, any foundation, any damp-proof course or
any concrete or other material laid over a site; or
(b) cover up in any way any drain or sewer to which these Regulations apply, unless that
person has given the local authority notice of intention to commence that work, and at
least one day has elapsed since the end of the day on which the notice was given.​


Provisions applicable to self-certification schemes

20.
—(1) This regulation applies to the extent that the building work consists only of work of a
type described in column 1 of the Table in Schedule 3 and the householder is a person who
is described in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Table in respect of that type of work.

(2) Where this regulation applies, the local authority are authorised to accept, as evidence that the
requirements of regulations 4 and 7 have been satisfied, a certificate to that effect by the householder.

(3) Where this regulation applies, the householder shall, not more than 30 days
after the completion of the work—

(a) give to the householder a copy of the certificate referred to in paragraph (2); and
(b) give to the local authority—
(i) notice to that effect, or
(ii) the certificate referred to in paragraph (2).​


27.—(1) This regulation applies where a building is erected and regulation 26 applies.

(2) Not later than the day before the work starts, the householder shall give the
local authority a notice which specifies—

(a) the target CO2 emission rate for the building,
(b) the calculated CO2 emission rate for the building as designed, and
(c) a list of specifications to which the building is to be constructed.​

(3) Not later than five days after the work has been completed, the householder
shall give the local authority—

(a) a notice which specifies—
(i) the target CO2 emission rate for the building,
(ii) the calculated CO2 emission rate for the building as constructed, and
(iii) whether the building has been constructed in accordance with the list of
specifications referred to in paragraph (2)(c), and if not a list of any changes to those
specifications; or

(b) a certificate of the sort referred to in paragraph (4) accompanied by the information
referred to in sub-paragraph (a).​


Energy performance certificates

29.— (2) The owner of the building shall—

(a) give an energy performance certificate for the building to the owner of the building;​


Wholesome water consumption calculation

37.—(1) Where regulation 36 applies, the householder must give the local
authority a notice which specifies the potential consumption of wholesome water per person per
day calculated in accordance with the methodology referred to in that regulation in relation to the
completed dwelling.


Fire safety information

38.—( 2) The householder shall give fire safety information to the responsible person
not later than the date of completion of the work, or the date of occupation of the building or
extension, whichever is the earlier.


Information about ventilation

39.—( 2) The owner shall not later than five days after the work has been
completed give sufficient information to the owner about the building’s ventilation system and its
maintenance requirements so that the ventilation system can be operated in such a manner as to
provide adequate means of ventilation.


Information about use of fuel and power

40.—( 2) The owner shall not later than five days after the work has been
completed provide to the owner sufficient information about the building, the fixed building services
and their maintenance requirements so that the building can be operated in such a manner as to use
no more fuel and power than is reasonable in the circumstances.


Sound insulation testing

41.—( 2) Where this regulation applies, the householder shall, for the purpose of
ensuring compliance with paragraph El of Schedule 1—

(a) ensure that appropriate sound insulation testing is carried out in accordance with a
procedure approved by the Secretary of State; and
(b) give a copy of the results of the testing referred to in sub-paragraph (a) to the local
authority.​

(4) Where building work consists of the erection of a dwelling-house or a building containing
flats, this regulation does not apply to any part of the building in relation to which the homeowner notifies the local authority, not later than the date on which notice of
commencement of the work is given under regulation 16(1), that, for the purpose of achieving
compliance of the work with paragraph E1 of Schedule 1, the homeowner is using one or more design
details approved by Robust Details Limited(a), provided that—

(a) the notification specifies—
(i) the part or parts of the building in respect of which the homeowner is using the design
detail;​


Mechanical ventilation air flow rate testing

42.—( 2) The homeowner shall, for the purpose of ensuring compliance with paragraph
F1(1) of Schedule 1—

(a) ensure that testing of the mechanical ventilation air flow rate is carried out in
accordance with a procedure approved by the Secretary of State; and
(b) give notice of the results of the testing to the local authority.​


Commissioning

44.—( 3) Where this regulation applies the homeowner shall, for the purpose of
ensuring compliance with paragraph F1(2) or L1(b) of Schedule 1, give to the local authority a
notice confirming that the fixed building services have been commissioned in accordance with a
procedure approved by the Secretary of State.


According to Schedule 3, the installation of a heat producing appliance does not require notification if the homeowner is a person, or an employee of a person, who is a member of a class of persons approved in accordance with regulation 3 of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998(

The installation of heating or hot water system connected to a heat-producing gas appliance, or associated controls does not require notification if the homeowner is a person registered by Ascertiva Group Limited, Association of Plumbing and Heating Contractors (Certification) Limited, Benchmark Certification Limited, Building Engineering Services Competence Accreditation Limited, Capita Gas Registration and Ancillary Services Limited, ECA Certification Limited, HETAS Limited, NAPIT Registration Limited, Oil Firing Technical Association Limited or Stroma Certification Limited in respect of that type of work.

And so on. Of particular relevance to this forum, the installation of fixed low or extra-low voltage electrical installations is exempt from notification if the homeowner is a person registered by Ascertiva Group Limited, Benchmark Certification Limited, British Standards Institution, Building Engineering Services Competence Accreditation Limited, ECA Certification Limited or NAPIT Registration Limited in respect of that type of work.
 
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