part p

[ban-all-sheds]

what do you define as starting work?

Chasing a channel for cable or pipes? Sinking a box? Drilling the wall for the shower? Putting the MCB in the CU?

...and how do you notify of intention to start work prior to dec?

I think that wording assumes that you've contracted someone to do the work, i.e. on or before 31/12/2004 you had agreed a start date which was before 31/3/2005.

i fitted the shower tray in Nov but never actually installed the shower till last month.
does this require notifying?....

IMPO no - you "contracted yourself" to do the work on or before 31/12/2004 and you started & finished before 31/3/2005.

and how willthey know in three years time when it was installed if i 'lose' the receipts?

They won't. But you don't need to lose the receipts - they will never be checking.

 

[keyplayer]

For want of getting slated, what's the problem with notching joists?

 

[dabaldie]

2 issues.
joists are sized accordingly. if you start reducing section sizes then you start problems. although this is not the biggest problem.
if you run a pipe or cable through the top of a joist notch, when you then refit boards (or someone else does) then you run the risk of putting a nail/screw through something. esp if you decide to just screw floorboards down without lifting them when they creak.

 

[keyplayer]

Ok, I accept that, but that has always been the case has it not? And always been ignored by pros and diyers alike. Does part P deal specifically with this?

 

[dabaldie]

nothing in part P. (Elctrical safety)
might be something in Part A (Structure) tho?

 

[keyplayer]

So are registered sparks obliged to comply with part A as well, or do I need a structural engineer to plan the wiring route for him?

 

[dabaldie]

techically if any material structural changes (or change of use) are made to a building then you need to comply with regs. that goes for everyone!
but its just common sense.
everyone knows its not practical to run wiring/pipes around/under/over joists. just dont go loopy with the saw!

(from a structural engineer who wished that they were required to assess all cutting into joists... just think of the fees)

 

[keyplayer]

but its just common sense.

Exactly. And indicates to me what a load of protectionist blox part P really is. Nothing to do with safety, everything to do with money.

 

[dabaldie]

to quote building control: last year 4 people were killed by defective home installations, we aim to reduce that number.
ok one death is too many, but if fees now go up, more people are likely to attempt home wiring and risk not getting caught rather than pay a sparky twice as much to self certify.

that will lead to more deaths and injuries

i dont agree with Part P. If you were in doubt, you used to get a sparky to do it or at least check. now that wont happen anymore if you have to pay more.

Most people are scared of electrics anyway. We've had people phoning up asking if they are allowed to rewire a plug anymore... thats if they even know about Part P. That just shows the lack of information issued by the government. they knew it would be unpopular.. another stealth issue... (not getting into politics)

some of the regs make sense... most of them dont... look at part L for killing DIY with windows.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So are registered sparks obliged to comply with part A as well,

Yes - if you are self-certifying compliance with the Building Regulations, you are certifying that your work complies with all of the relevant ones, structure, fire, disabled access, energy efficiency, noise.....

 

[keyplayer]

So many parts, so little time! You can legally diy windows though, if you inform (and of course pay) the local BCO, and comply with the regs. Will the BCO inspect and certify electrics though. I doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's what they are now responsible for doing when served with a Building Notice giving notification of controlled work falling under Part P of the Building Regulations.

But most (all?) of them are seeking to avoid that responsibility, by a number of means, including in some cases telling outright lies about what the Building Regulations now say.

 

[keyplayer]

So are you saying the following hypothetical scenario is how it should or could work?

I decide to wire my new extension myself. (I am not an electrician). Before starting work, I inform my BCO, fill the forms in, pay the fee. I do the wiring, tell the council who are then responsible for inspecting and certifying the installation. Which they do. Everyone happy, especially me with the knowledge that all is safe and I have not had to shell out bundles for a professional sparky.

Or am I grasping at straws?

 

[dabaldie]

yup thats it...

or you can use a sparky who is registered and self certified and no need to go to BCO then.

your way is cheaper.

exactly the same as windows.

just like FENSA you now have ELECSA etc..

 

[keyplayer]

Well thanks both, that's a lot clearer now. Though BAS seems to be suggesting it's not quite as simple as that.