Petrol cutter Stihl 410 won`t start - Help

[Jonny Vee]

I purchased from an Auction (still not cheap) a Petrol cutter Stihl TS410.

It`s was disappointing when opened up filter box with filter completely dump of water and fuel which completely fell apart.

New filter, new spark but nothing. Plug spark seems to make spark. Also from the combustion chamber while pulling seems like mud was coming out. Spent more than an hour with compressor to clean it out till clean fuel coming out but still nothing. Saw won`t start.

Any thought? I know someone will say take carburettor apart but never done before and i`m worried of messing it it and make thing worst. I disconnected carb and cleaned on both side without taking it completely apart

Fuel nebulize while pulling the cord whit no plug screwed

Any tips, throughout before touching the carburettor?

 

[ETAF]

i took the carb apart on my Stihl Chain saw last year , I was a bit worried about it all - But I watched quite a few youtube videos before hand and it was quite straight forward in the end.

Did get my saw working again ,

I'll see if i can find the videos again , and edit here
Just had a look and a search brings up quite a few videos on doing this cleaning, i would have watched quite a few of those.

 

[Burnerman]

Before you do anything.....these machines have one hell of a life.
Check for good compression - if there isn't significant resistance to the pull cord then it's piston and barrel time. Take the exhaust off and you'll see the piston and rings. Any scoring should be visible (and it's not a good sign).
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

Before you do anything.....these machines have one hell of a life.
Check for good compression - if there isn't significant resistance to the pull cord then it's piston and barrel time. Take the exhaust off and you'll see the piston and rings. Any scoring should be visible (and it's not a good sign).
John

No plug very smooth and fast running. With plug on compression seems good. Can't measure how much but seems to be okay.

 

[Burnerman]

Difficult to gauge the compression on a two stroke, but with the plug in there should be significant resistance and a 'pop pop pop' sound as you pull it over.
If you are happy with the spark (try in the dark or shade) then it has to be a fuel issue.
The carb is likely to be a Zama C1Q derivative.....easy enough to clean but you'll need a diaphragm and gasket set for the exact model.
However, some pattern carbs can be had from ebay very cheaply which could be the way to go if you don't have an air line or can of carb cleaner aerosol.
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

Carburettor taken apart, cleaned up. Put back. Pulling cord seems with no spark plug, load of fuel coming out. Put spark plug back, tried several time not even the sign of any spark or engine starting. Completely off. Removed the plug fully wet of fuel.

Removed the plug and put next to metal. can see spark coming out.

Not sure what else can be. Any thought?

 

[Burnerman]

Nothing is going to happen until you get all of that fuel out.....plug out, turn the engine over so the plug hole is at the bottom and crank it over until nothing sprays out.
Once that’s done, try again for a start but don’t use any choke just yet. Heating the plug up may help too.
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

Nothing is going to happen until you get all of that fuel out.....plug out, turn the engine over so the plug hole is at the bottom and crank it over until nothing sprays out.
Once that’s done, try again for a start but don’t use any choke just yet. Heating the plug up may help too.
John

Why all of that fuel is coming out. Do you reckon it will stop spraying fuel. What cause this to happen?

 

[Burnerman]

As you will know, fuel is ingested into the crankcase in a two stroke engine, and then passed above the piston for burning via 'transfer ports'.
This fuel needs to be got rid of.....often it is historic and has been there for ages when the machine wouldn't start -- so that's the reasoning by removing the plug and cranking the engine over a dozen times. I stick an air line in there just to be sure, and it's amazing what can come out. In effect it's cleaning the crankcase out - not the combustion space above the piston.
Now, if the fuel floods in afterwards then it has to be a carburettor problem - the needle valve in fact which isn't seating.
There's no reason why you shouldn't have a bash cleaning the carb if you like, but an aerosol can of carb cleaner is vital, together with a diaphragm / gasket set. The price of these genuine parts is often the same as a complete pattern carburettor so you can go down that route.
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

As you will know, fuel is ingested into the crankcase in a two stroke engine, and then passed above the piston for burning via 'transfer ports'.
This fuel needs to be got rid of.....often it is historic and has been there for ages when the machine wouldn't start -- so that's the reasoning by removing the plug and cranking the engine over a dozen times. I stick an air line in there just to be sure, and it's amazing what can come out. In effect it's cleaning the crankcase out - not the combustion space above the piston.
Now, if the fuel floods in afterwards then it has to be a carburettor problem - the needle valve in fact which isn't seating.
There's no reason why you shouldn't have a bash cleaning the carb if you like, but an aerosol can of carb cleaner is vital, together with a diaphragm / gasket set. The price of these genuine parts is often the same as a complete pattern carburettor so you can go down that route.
John

John,

Thanks for he quick response. I did exactly had you described. 3/4 pull upside down and not more spray. Pre heated spark with heat gun and then tried to start. Nothing. no sign completely dead. removed plug and again completely wet of fuel. Last option is to get carb diapfram on ebay.

Can you please let me know if there is anything else need to be replaced on that carb?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133381397198?hash=item1f0e269ace:g:V8UAAOSwPRtejHX1




Thanks

 

[Burnerman]

Those are the main diaphragms and gaskets you need....one is a pump diaphragm, the other is a metering one.
Full refurb kits include a new needle valve, spring and welch plugs.
Lets see when you get the carb apart....any water ingress should be evident with corrosion - its amazing how quickly rust marks form.
Do check the fuel feed pipe and filter in the tank at the same time, and the tank should have a breather somewhere.
Careful as you dismantle the thing, if there are two screws marked H and L don’t mix them up and count how many turns they are in.
Also watch for the diaphragm and gasket orientation ( diaphragms go next to the carb body).
Good luck with it!
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

Those are the main diaphragms and gaskets you need....one is a pump diaphragm, the other is a metering one.
Full refurb kits include a new needle valve, spring and welch plugs.
Lets see when you get the carb apart....any water ingress should be evident with corrosion - its amazing how quickly rust marks form.
Do check the fuel feed pipe and filter in the tank at the same time, and the tank should have a breather somewhere.
Careful as you dismantle the thing, if there are two screws marked H and L don’t mix them up and count how many turns they are in.
Also watch for the diaphragm and gasket orientation ( diaphragms go next to the carb body).
Good luck with it!
John

I hoped not to strip everything apart as would be more difficult to put back but I`m up to the game

I guess this is what you mean as rebuilt kit

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330642248967?hash=item4cfbd05507:g:T6YAAOSweW5VCrCf

Not sure about quality. Hope they are okay

 

[Burnerman]

Genuine Stihl kits are three times that price but I use the pattern parts all the time - likewise the occasional carb replacement if I get beaten.
Cleanliness is absolutely vital when you work on these, and no sealant must be used.
Careful if you use an air line as welch plugs can be blown away without you noticing!
John

 

[Jonny Vee]

Genuine Stihl kits are three times that price but I use the pattern parts all the time - likewise the occasional carb replacement if I get beaten.
Cleanliness is absolutely vital when you work on these, and no sealant must be used.
Careful if you use an air line as welch plugs can be blown away without you noticing!
John

Thanks John.

I have ordered the kit and will have a go once arrive. Will keep you posted

 

[Jonny Vee]

Carb build kit arrived today. Stripped car and replaced all the parts abd cleaned with carb spray. Put everything back but music still the same. Plug comes wet after several crank but not like before seems just wet of fuel not burned. Cranking with no plug no crazy amount of spray like before. I guess carb rebuilt worked but saw won't start. Not any sign of life. Completely dead when crancking.

I'm lost guys. Ran out idea of what's going on.

Any idea?