Physics Question

[chapeau]

These predictions using our observations of gravity are akin to someone being able to drive a car without having the foggiest clue as to why nor how it works.

A very bad analogy indeed.

Got another to flush out before my work is done...

 

[calorific]

 

[Astartes]

These predictions using our observations of gravity are akin to someone being able to drive a car without having the foggiest clue as to why nor how it works.

A very bad analogy indeed.

Got another to flush out before my work is done...

Flush them doon the pan, please. Topic is awash with total zoomers

 

[joe-90]

I think it's disingenous to pretend that some things are not known to be essentially factual especially when these claims are made by buffoons in a slippery attempt to get out making a fool of themselves on an internet bulletin board.

There are hypotheses, theories and laws. Laws are considered to be factual and to say that we know nothing about, for example, gravity is demonstrating ignorance in the extreme.

Gravity is not just something we have observed. We can make predictions using Newton's Law of gravity and (in newtonian mechanics) the events predicted can be considered to happen.

How do we know what time sun will rise tomorrow morning? How do we know the speed when the wings of an aircraft will create enough lift to clear obstacles at the end of a runway? How do we know that when we hurl a spacecraft at Mars it will land within a few miles of where we want it to?

Because we know enough about gravity to make these predictions.

To claim otherwise just makes you look like a sore losing fool.

And we all know who you are

You've had your ass kicked - get over it.

 

[chapeau]

Three hours late but he turned up, have to say I thought it would be sooner, but turn up he did.

So I got the place right but not the time. Buffoon hypothesis pretty good but needs tweaking.

 

[calorific]

Three hours late but he turned up, have to say I thought it would be sooner, but turn up he did.

So I got the place right but not the time. Buffoon hypothesis pretty good but needs tweaking.

Is this sort of tomfoolery of any real value to this thread?

 

[joe-90]

He knows that he's been shagged by a greater intellect. He doesn't like it.

 

[UriBentMySpoon]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

 

[snico]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

It will take a while for Joe to Google that, be patient!

 

[joe-90]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

Instantly. Double the mass equals double the deformation of space and hence double the gravity associated with that mass. It's pretty rudimentary.

 

[joe-90]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

It will take a while for Joe to Google that, be patient!

If you have nothing to add then do us all a favour and clear off.

 

[snico]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

It will take a while for Joe to Google that, be patient!

If you have nothing to add then do us all a favour and clear off.

I have nothing to add....i'm just an audience to another Joe beating haha!

But you still didnt answer his question? (he wont)

 

[jeds]

There are no fundamental physical laws inside a black hole though I believe.
Scientists call it a "singularity" ,which is scientist speak for " f*ck knows".

Yep but that's past the event horizon and we can never know what's beyond that. Unless a naked singularity shows up and that would be really weird.

Tonka, I follow your argument most of the way but I'm struggling with the following: Your explanation makes it sound like the gravitons beaming towards the Earth in space can have a holding effect on their own with no body to pull against. In other words right up to the point that the last graviton arrives at the Earth the Earth would be held by those gravitons. But how can this be? Do the two bodies held together by gravity not rely on each other for stability. More akin to a rope holding two bodies together. Cut the rope holding the Sun and earth together and the effect would be instant. One part of the rope would fly off with one of the bodies and the other with the other. The rope could not hold either in place on it's own.

Think of the rope being shaken to produce a wave that travels along it, now make that rope very very long stop shaking the end suddenly. It'll take a while for the pre-existing waves already on the rope to cease and the rope to become still. That's a reasonable analogy

Thanks.

Can I take this another step. The waves on the rope must have a cumulative effect. The more of them there are the more the effect. Lets say more waves = more gravitatianal force. With the sun in place the rope is full of waves = maximum gravitational force. Take the sun away and the waves don't disappear immediately but they must reduce. So there are two possibilities; one is that gravity remains at maximum whilst any number of waves remain in the rope. Those waves career towards Earth and when the last one arrives the Earth flies off into space. This doesn't seem logical to me. A more obvious answer is that the reduction in gravitational force would be very small to begin with but would steadily increase as the waves reduce. So the Earth may not immediately fly off as if there was no gravity but it would notice an instant effect that would increase until the waves were completely decayed. And of course that reduction would be non-linear because of the rapidly inceasing distance.

PS. (to others - not Tonka) If you can't give an answer to this without adding an insult I'd prefer you didn't bother.

Tonka,

Just bringing this forward in case you missed it. I think there are only really two possibilities; one being that that no force exists without a source - in which case the force disappears the moment the sun disappears. I'm ignoring that one for the time being. The second possibility is that the gravitational force leaves the source and travels at close to speed of light - in which case when you take the Sun away there would be a delayed reaction. What I can't see in my mind is that the force could exert at maximum for eight and a half minutes and then the Earth would suddenly fly off. It seems far more logical to me that there would be an immediate reduction in force which would increase as time and distance elapsed. I'd be interested to know what you think.

 

[joe-90]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

It will take a while for Joe to Google that, be patient!

If you have nothing to add then do us all a favour and clear off.

I have nothing to add....i'm just an audience to another Joe beating haha!

But you still didnt answer his question? (he wont)

Take another look dummy.

 

[UriBentMySpoon]

Look uri - no-one has any idea how gravity works. They said as much on Horizon the other day. How do you know how gravity (minus its mass) would work? There can be NO GRAVITY without mass. The two are inseparable. No mass = no gravity. Geddit? You can't have gravity once the mass has disappeared. You won't find that on google because mass cannot disappear - so the question is moot.

The question is about gravity and the time it takes to effect other bodies should it instantly change. Also as stated real world observations show that gravity "travels" at the spped of light.

Question for Joe, should the sun's gravitational effects DOUBLE, nothing else, how long would it take for that change in gravity to effect us as we are approx 8 1/2 light minutes from the Sun.

Instantly. Double the mass equals double the deformation of space and hence double the gravity associated with that mass. It's pretty rudimentary.

Even though scientific observations seem to state gravity moves at light speed? Something predicted by General Relativity?

Whos wins? Scientists and their experiments or Joe's brain?