Plumb, clout nail and screed method? And what type of plaster to use.

[Rhothgar]

Hello

New to forum but been reading up here and other articles about the plumb, dot and screed method of plastering.

Read one article on another website (here:- https://specialistplastering.com/2016/03/14/dot-and-screed/ ) by a specialist plastering firm where they described using clout nails and a string line to line through intermediate clout nails and create the screeds in between.

The traditional way seems to be by using thin pine laths and plaster dots? If these are only ~10mm. thin do they not flex between the dots?

However, would I be correct in saying that if I was to use screeds with the clout nail method that you would remove the clout nails and leave the screeds just stay in-situ and there would be no making good, right?

I am not sure I have the confidence to do the final skim but the undercoat looks to be, famous last words, a cinch using the screed method providing I get everything else right

The areas to be plastered consist of horrible Thermalite blockwork and 9" common brickwork. Would I use Hardwall on the Thermalite and Bonding on the common brick?

One issue I envisage is if I tried to do it using clout nails they simply may not sit tight enough in the Thermalite whilst I am trying to level and plumb the dots with a spirit level and straight a la Roughcaster method. I've read both threads where he and Roy C have commented on dot and screed.

I appreciate it is also a slow method but how long (is a piece of string) would you reckon it take a complete novice to undercoat 40 sq. m?

One other issue is that there is a runout of 50mm where the thermalite blockwork tilts back to the outside brick leaf on one section of wall where it abuts the original blockwork from bad workmanship!

Can anyone point out to me the pitfalls I am likely to encounter using either method please?

Thanks in advance

Could admin delete my initial thread please?

 

[Rhothgar]

No-one? I thought there were some valid questions?

 

[lostinthelight]

You can level the dabs a darn site easier with a 360° vertical laser, ive not long done one that way.

 

[Rhothgar]

You can level the dabs a darn site easier with a 360° vertical laser, ive not long done one that way.

Thanks for your input. Sounds easier as you say but quite expensive for the kit. I need something a monkey, i.e. me, can do.

I read about using the pine laths but can I find any to buy? I've also watched several videos online and then found that specialist plastering website showing clout nails being used. Perhaps I am overthinking this and just need to get on with it. Missus is very patient luckily.

 

[cdbe]

I do it with screws and plugs - 3 per screed, plumb with level (adjust screw screws in and out). Across with string for the middle ones.
I'm doing my bedroom at the moment - slow but doable by a DIYer and millimeter accurate with paitence. Think about using render as it's a bit easier to work with and cheaper - but you'll need to build up the deeper areas in layers.

 

[bobasd]

cdbe, well done, your on the right path so to speak.
keep your corner screeds about 300mm from the corners.
space your screeds about 1200mm to 1500mm apart.
be accurate plumbing down from your "dots" - a perfectly flat an plumb screed to about 50mm above the floor - use a 6' level or a short level an straight edge.

when you have to return on an abutting wall, use some kind of right angle device to set the next two screeds on the return wall - that way you will have perfect right angled inside corners.
cutting the machined corner off a piece of 4' x 8' ply will give you a true right angled, say 4' x 4' template.

 

[Rhothgar]

cdbe Thanks for the input. It looks as though I am going to have to give it a try.

Yet another plasterer who had been recommended and who'd gone quiet called me back after missing my call yesterday. He sounded edgy on the phone after saying he now can't start for another 3 weeks and then said, "To be honest, I've not done wet plaster for a long time and it's quite a large area." He could have said that when he came around initially 3 - 4 weeks ago.

Sorry if this offends any plasterers that may be on here but why is the first question a plasterer always seems to ask whether you want it in dot and dab? I feel like saying I'd do it myself if that was what I wanted (though I have no clue about the skill level required for dot and dab. I would guess it's a lot easier but imagine the gauging of the amount of dab to use would be challenging and therefore getting board edges perfectly aligned might be difficult?).

The major problem I have with dot and dab I keep telling them is it's hollow to the tap and that doesn't sit well with me in an old house. Another more valid point which I never mention is health. Plaster is far healthier for occupant and building structure than plasterboard if damp issues arise because at least with plaster you can immediately see and assess the issue but with plasterboard on dabs it masks any issues. To my mind, it's a bodge.

Your job is looking good, cdbe but my job is much bigger and it unnerves me. Though it's probably the only way I am going to get any plaster on the walls before Xmas is to do it myself. I'd rather pay a decent plasterer to do the job to be honest and have a go with a small area in another part of the house at some later stage.

 

[Rhothgar]

cutting the machined corner off a piece of 4' x 8' ply will give you a true right angled, say 4' x 4' template.

or, cdbe, as bobasd says use a sheet of 4 x 8 ply but measure up the 8' edge, 3' and check the diagonal. It should be 5' (credit: Pythogoras' Theorem) if board edges are perfectly square (which they will probably be...)

 

[bobasd]

you dont need Pythagoras just cut a 4ftx4ft triangle - the true right angle is built-in to the machined edge ply sheet.

 

[cdbe]

I've got one. My dad's a retired brickie and keeps making me things like that and gauge rods, spot boards etc - I'm a messy sod and just leave them round the garden to rot - but it keeps him busy!
I'm skimming the ceiling tomorrow - I've never managed to do one without the start going off before I get to the end so I've decided to split it in half with a batten and easyfill the joint.

 

[bobasd]

the ninety degree device can be used to get a true 90* from the wall to the ceiling - use it as above with the return inside corner if accuracy is needed.
we learned it so we could run true ceiling mouldings - believe me its needed for running stuff.