plumbers, which pipe cutter?

[dann09]

Monkeh,

I notice that you swerve my argument & respond to the aside: FWIW.
Rather an odd method of proving a point?

By the way, using FYI as a stresser is ever hardly necessary after the age of 12 or so. And in our case, who else would you be talking to - unless, of course, you too, like our poster above, have the gift of extraordinary powers?

AK 47's have never been out of production, in USSR/Russia and many other countries including ( in small quantities ) the USA.
By common and expert consent it is the finest assault rifle ever made.
50 yrs ago was pre Vietnam. Vietnam was where millions of AK 47's were used.
US Special Forces who walked the HCM Trail and went north, almost all carried one. They carried them because the quality of always working, no matter the conditions, was guaranteed.

Your argument was to do with "the deterioration of quality in high end products", now you appear to be introducing comparison with "consumer products" - which is it?

 

[Monkeh]

Monkeh,

I notice that you swerve my argument & respond to the aside: FWIW.
Rather an odd method of proving a point?

Your 'argument' was nothing but a statement of historical fact. Please come up with an argument other than 'China bad.'.

AK 47's have never been out of production, in USSR/Russia and many other countries including ( in small quantities ) the USA.

No, the AK-47 has long been out of production. Contrary to popular belief, not every rifle which looks slightly like an 'AK-47' (the majority of you have never SEEN a real AK-47) is actually an AK-47. The AK-47 was only produced for ten years, and swiftly replaced. The replacements were easier to manufacture, more accurate, more reliable.. and not AK-47s.

By common and expert consent it is the finest assault rifle ever made.

That is a matter of opinion and people have very different views as to what makes an assault rifle good.

US Special Forces who walked the HCM Trail and went north, almost all carried one. They carried them because the quality of always working, no matter the conditions, was guaranteed.

Oh, trust me, an AK can be broken. They had other reasons for carrying them.

Your argument was to do with "the deterioration of quality in high end products", now you appear to be introducing comparison with "consumer products" - which is it?

Okay, let me qualify: High end consumer products. You know, the subject matter of this thread. Yes, a pipe cutter is a consumer product. An assault rifle or a jumbo ****ing jet is not.

 

[dann09]

Breathtakingly ignorant of your own post @ 7:09. Read your own post before replying to mine. You wrote it, nobody else.

Point 1. You dismissed the China issue and claimed in your interjection that everything was to do with modern, mass production. I dealt with the argument that you presented - your words, your post.

I pointed out that mass production, had been around a while and implied that it was more than just the end product, it was a particular process - Fordism.
The process of mass production was used to build the 747 & AK-47, the product was irrelevant.
FWIW: the Soviet's built AK-47's on - their words - Fordist lines.

Point 2: you claim that in approx 1958, AK production of 75 million AK-47's and 25 million variants ( some "drop dead basic items") finished: see Jane's weapons and the CIA fact books for a different take.
Perhaps you know better.

AAMOI: would you consider that the Beetles in the last production run of the Volkswagen Beetle were somehow not Volks Beetle's?

A personal anecdote: i've seen AK's being manufactured in garage workshops by the gunsmiths of Landi Kotal, perhaps this still goes on?

Point 3. Do you have an alternative better assault rifle of the last 60yrs?

Point 4. Of course it "can be broken" and, of course, there were, and are, various reasons for carrying a particular weapon, but in the AK's case it was carried for reliability no matter. Whole US infantry battalions equipped themselves with AK's besides their regulation weapons.

Point 5. More bafflement: you definitively state that the subject of your qualified thread is"High end consumer products" then, wriggle wriggle it appears to be a "pipe cutter" that, unfortunately, is only "a consumer product" - notwithstanding your original interjection that it's "everything to do with mass production"
And then to disgrace your argument you lapse into profanity. I am sorry you feel that way.

I'll leave this discussion here. I see no point in any further posts on my part.

 

[Monkeh]

Modern mass production has VERY LITTLE to do with 'what has been around for a while'. I am talking about the reality of producing items for the billions of people on this planet, not the concept.

As for your difficulty in seeing the difference between firearms, jumbo jets, and common tools like pipe cutters and drills, well, that's your problem, not mine.

Now let's drop some facts into this discussion. Again.

The AK-47 ceased production in 1959. It was replaced by the AKM, which was produced in far greater numbers and was far more suited to mass production. They most certainly did not produce 75 million AK-47s in a ten year period, and I care not for physically incompatible copies of the action, they're not AK-47s. If this definition offends you, kindly don't attempt ownership of firearms, or you might get your FAL and L1A1 mixed up.

As for usage by the US military, reliability was not the sole issue (it was one, I admit. That's because they're poorly trained imbeciles who don't clean their firearms, and, as I seem to recall, someone suggested the M16 did not require cleaning. I hope that one bite him in the arse when his rifle didn't fire.). Availability of ammunition was a serious one. As was penetration capability. Then there's the significant difference in report of an AK (note: AK, as in 'Kalashnikov pattern', not a specific model) versus the Western calibres used in the M14 and M16, which is a significant factor in usage by special forces.

I also see no point in further posts, frankly. You're clearly intent on bashing Chinese production as a whole.

 

[jabuzzard]

China just produces a lot of cheap crap for those who are't willing to pay for the good stuff.

The problem is that all the cheap crap means that even if you want to buy quality stuff, sometimes you simply cannot any more.