Power Flushing ??????????

[JohnD]

my responses in green to points shown

...This business of you quoting the fact that Sentinel have said this "now" makes it sound as though they have removed some previously imposed time limit...

Sentinel now say (and I only saw this recently, the only advice I had previously seen was to drain it out) "There is no limit to the time for which the product can safely be left in the system." see http://www.sentinel-solutions.net/en/heating/X400/application

...and there is no suggestion that it should be a substitute for inhibitor.

I can't find any suggestion from anyone, including me, that contradicts this.

you said earlier "No, it can't, because it won't stop the ferrous components from corroding." which would only be true if the system was left without inhibitor, which I have not suggested.


...To reiterate: the longer you leave the X400 in, the less effect it has, and the longer you leave the sediment in, the more time it has to re-coagulate, and the longer you leave the system without an inhibitor, the more time it has to corrode...

I only see an advantage in leaving it in if you have a device to remove the sediment. If removed, it is not going to re-coagulate.

I have not suggested leaving the system without an inhibitor

However I do see an advantage in leaving it in after the system seems clean, because it seems that it will continue loosening some of the residue which will then be trapped and can be removed .

My perspective is that even after the system has been cleaned, there is always old sediment remaining, and the magnaclean will trap any circulating black. So I like the idea of leaving X400 in once the sytem has been returned to service, to encourage the loosening and collection of this residue.

 

[Softus]

my responses in green to points shown

I'll have a go in the same style, using orange.

...This business of you quoting the fact that Sentinel have said this "now" makes it sound as though they have removed some previously imposed time limit...

Sentinel now say (and I only saw this recently, the only advice I had previously seen was to drain it out) "There is no limit to the time for which the product can safely be left in the system." see http://www.sentinel-solutions.net/en/heating/X400/application

Yes I've read that, but my point is that it doesn't say "there is no limit to the time for which the product can usefully be left in the system. I believe the statement is there as a result of some safety policy, not as functional guidance.

...and there is no suggestion that it should be a substitute for inhibitor.

I can't find any suggestion from anyone, including me, that contradicts this.

you said earlier "No, it can't, because it won't stop the ferrous components from corroding." which would only be true if the system was left without inhibitor, which I have not suggested.

It would also be true in the actual scenario, which is that the cleanser is not a corrosion inhibitor.

...To reiterate: the longer you leave the X400 in, the less effect it has, and the longer you leave the sediment in, the more time it has to re-coagulate, and the longer you leave the system without an inhibitor, the more time it has to corrode...

I only see an advantage in leaving it in if you have a device to remove the sediment. If removed, it is not going to re-coagulate.

I completely agree with that.

I have not suggested leaving the system without an inhibitor

I believe you have implied it, or certainly written something from which it is highly likely to be inferred by a novice, because not adding an inhibitor means not draining, ergo X400 would be left in without an inhibitor.

However I do see an advantage in leaving it in after the system seems clean, because it seems that it will continue loosening some of the residue which will then be trapped and can be removed.

I share that view.

____________

Edit: post accidentally deleted and reinstated.

 

[JohnD]

t h a t ' s g r e a t

 

[Softus]

But to re-iterate my point...

However I do see an advantage in leaving it in after the system seems clean, because it seems that it will continue loosening some of the residue which will then be trapped and can be removed.

I share that view.

Whilst I share the view, I'm opposed to the idea of leaving it in indefinitely, because it will inevitably lead to further corrosion.

My general rule of thumb is leave a cleanser in a mildly dirty system for one week, two if it's very dirty but without any rust showing, and four when there's gobs of brown goo everywhere, i.e when the system was only just circulating.

 

[Terrywookfit]

If a system is properly cleansed and inhibited there should be no need to leave a cleaner in the system as re precipitation of the depoisits could occur!!

I know that all you tight Ars*s out there feel that powerflushing is a rip off but after experiencing problems with several boilers due to my own DIY attempts I purchased a powerflushing pump!! ( And later a twin magnaclean)

I also find that most brands of chemicals that are sold in merchants are aimed at DIY attempts and most are woefully inadequate for the job (Inhibitors included)!!

I also ran a series of tests to substantiate to these conclusions !!

Powerflushing to me is a total pain as I find it mind numbingly boring and repetitive! However the amount of crud removed from most systems justifies the time spent !!

My personal approach to a badly fouled system would be to add "Hyperflush" for a couple of weeks pre treatment and then FX2 on the powerflush!!

The results are amazing!!

A Magnaclean would then have very little maintenance required!!

 

[bengasman]

I have done the same as Terry and have come to the same conclusions, with the difference of spending a hundred quid on a magnaclean and then spend the time to install it. Several weeks of hyperflush circulating in the system to soften things up, followed by powerflushing with fx2. Neutralise, very important, and drain and rinse until clean. Add 1 or 2 litres of quality inhibitor, I use systemsafe from same manufacturer and done. Check level of inhibitor at annual service and the system stays free of limescale and corrosion. Just replaced a radiator and some pipe work for a client where I had done the cleaning when installing the new boiler 3 years ago. Refilled the system and put cleaner in for 2 weeks to see what happens. The color came up to that of an average pint of lager, and that was it. With a bit of maintenance, that system should run without deteriorating for another 10 to 20 years.
400 quid devided by 20 years to be free of leak and sludge problems is well worth the investment.

 

[Agile]

X400 can be left in the system permanently to loosen sediment (though if you haven't got a Magnaclean you will not be taking the sediment out unless you drain it).

You should not leave X400 in the system more than 4-6 weeks.

Its purpose is to loosen the dirt to enable it to be drained out!

Tony

 

[gas4you]

I have always been told that after about 4 weeks X400 stops working anyway.

 

[namsag]

Too be honest don`t think it works at all.

 

[JohnD]

It does, you know!

I drained and did a plain water flush, fitted Magnaclean, ran the system until the magnet collected no more sediment; added X400 and the system went black again and the magnet picked up heaps more of sludge!

 

[namsag]

Johnd .X400 is sold a a product that will clear blockages, have used it numerous times and it just isn`t agressive enough to unblock anything.
Yes it will loosen stuff of the surface of pipes and discolour the water again which may look like it is working but to clear a blockage that is stopping a system working .Very little chance

 

[JohnD]

I know - it can't clear an actual blockage, because it can't flow down a blocked pipe to reach it

Especially on the usual blockage in a feed

But if used before a blockage occurs, it can loosen the sediment that, if left, might eventually settle into a block, so that the sludge in suspension can be removed.

I didn't know people were buying it in the expectation that it would remove a blockage