Powerflush CH system

[zena123]

Morning all !

New plumber (recommended on NextDoor) came round to quote for another job, & offered to powerflush CH system as separate task : System is over 10yo. As I understand it from reading past posts, he should:

1) Leave chemical (Sentinel x400 ?) in system for 4 days beforehand.

2) Drain system (fix pipe to lowest point & ensure dirty water goes into a container to be removed, or to outside of house ... we had language difficulties over this one)

3) take radiators out one at a time and flush then through outdoors until they run clean.
(He did not specifically say he would do this, & I want to be sure.)

4) Hose through pipework and boiler.

5) Apply inhibitor.

6) Balance system.

He will also repair a slight leak to a downstairs rad: it has been minimally leaking from where rad connects to pipe going vertically downward into floor.

Have I missed anything/got it in the wrong order ? Grateful for your help, tx Zena

 

[Newboy]

Is there a specific problem with your heating?

Powerflushing isn't usually needed unless there is poor circulation or a new boiler installation for example.

What exactly does the quote for power flushing say will be done?


If it's a proper power flush then a machine is used to circulate chemicals through the system.

 

[zena123]

Thank you Newboy, for your reply. I haven't got a written quote : it was a verbal discussion. and it was only when I came on this site to check what is involved in powerflush, that I realised I should have got everything specified precisely. There's nothing wrong with my CH, but the pipes are 15mm and the system is getting on in age. On one occasion when I bled the rads, an amount of black liquid came out & it occurred to me that a powerflush at some time wd be needed. Is it right that a chemical needs to be put in approx 4 days before a powerflush, or is that not necessary ? Tx as always, for help. Zena

 

[zena123]

Newboy, tx for photo ... which I realise you put in on purpose, to show what is needed. What is in the large white container ? tx, Zena

 

[muggles]

Morning all !

New plumber (recommended on NextDoor) came round to quote for another job, & offered to powerflush CH system as separate task : System is over 10yo. As I understand it from reading past posts, he should:

1) Leave chemical (Sentinel x400 ?) in system for 4 days beforehand.

2) Drain system (fix pipe to lowest point & ensure dirty water goes into a container to be removed, or to outside of house ... we had language difficulties over this one)

3) take radiators out one at a time and flush then through outdoors until they run clean.
(He did not specifically say he would do this, & I want to be sure.)

4) Hose through pipework and boiler.

5) Apply inhibitor.

6) Balance system.

He will also repair a slight leak to a downstairs rad: it has been minimally leaking from where rad connects to pipe going vertically downward into floor.

Have I missed anything/got it in the wrong order ? Grateful for your help, tx Zena

That's not a powerflush, it's a chemical flush which is much less effective. A powerflush requires the use of a special machine, usually connected in place of the existing central heating pump. It is often a full day's work, and should be done by someone who has been trained to do it properly. Why do you think you need a powerflush?

 

[zena123]

Sorry for drip-feed ... I got the impression from the plumber, that it is my pump that circulates the chemicals & flushes the system ??? best wishes, Zena

 

[zena123]

Muggles, tx. for taking an interest .... Black liquid comes out when I bled rads some time last year. Rads are otherwise working OK. Maybe I should put system on and try bleeding rads for myself to check first.
Additional drip-feed (Sorry, didn't think of it earlier) Plumber also said that MagnaClean which previous plumber inserted above boiler on first floor is in wrong place and should have been put downstairs near Megaflow. Could that be right ??

tx enormously again, all advice welcomed. Zena

 

[JohnD]

A powerflush, using the machine, is a fairly expensive job costing hundreds of pounds.

What you are describing is a job that can be done by a handy householder as a DIY job that takes half an hour when you add and circulate the chemical, and several hours when you flush and rinse it out a few weeks later. The chemicals cost around £15 to clean and the same afterwards for the inhibitor on completion. The DIY job is worthwhile because it is so cheap, but not as good as a powerflush. If you end up paying somebody else to do it, it may not be money well spent.

The best place for a Magnaclean is on the return pipe to the boiler. Perhaps your person has some other reason in mind, such as ease of access. Do you know how to clean out the Magnaclean yourself? Does your boiler have a pressure gauge on it?

I wonder if the person you have spoken to is a handyman or a plumber.

Did you find this person by personal recommendation from somebody you trust, or was it one of those advertising websites where people pay to be listed or get their friends and family to write favourable reviews?

 

[muggles]

A Magnaclean should normally be as close to the boiler as possible, on the return pipe. It's a handy place to connect a powerflushing pump though!

Your "plumber" (like JohnD I'm beginning to suspect he is actually a handyman) is incorrect - your pump should be removed and the powerflushing machine circulates the water. Your chap is suggesting a chemical clean, which isn't the same thing at all.

 

[zena123]

Right .... sorry for delay in replying to authentic questions you've asked ...
I think I was about to be 'had'. Have just been round & bled rads (after putting CH on).
Result: all rads hot & all produced clear liquid, only 3 on top floor needed bleeding, & they also produced clear liquid.

Muggles: I hear what you say: he was prob. intending a 'chemical flush' not offering a proper powerflush - though he said it wd take all day. (Cost was to be in the hundreds.) Have to say, I was a bit puzzled when I couldn't make head-or-tail of where the sludge was supposed to go when it came out ...
John D: MagnaClean IS on return pipe to boiler. So seems as if it WAS placed in proper location by plumber who came last year. That is good to know.... what a relief !
Muggles/John D: this was someone recommended on NextDoor, but the recommender is unknown to me ... she has raised quite a lot of interest amongst others in the neighbourhood (promised excellent, reliable job, etc) on NextDoor and I'm afraid I jumped on the bandwagon, without looking properly first.

I have texted the 'New' plumber to say that I can't do this week after all ... (that was before I went round bleeding the rads. & before I read your later postings). Looks like I can do without him in my life.

Thanks, seems you have saved me £400 with your advice. Plus the anxiety I would have had if the job had created more problems ....

Cannot say how grateful I am for your time & effort on this. Tx. enormously again, bw Zena

 

[JohnD]

Do you know how to clean out the Magnaclean yourself? Does your boiler have a pressure gauge on it?

 

[zena123]

Hi JohnD: After your post earlier, I had a look at a couple of YouTube videos on cleaning
out the MagnaClean & think I can probably do it myself - I just need to check the clearances as it is fitted close to ceiling. And will re-watch videos several times before I try. Not sure if the boiler has a pressure gauge on it : am reading through the Manual now to see if I can find any info. on that. Boiler is an Ideal Classic FF 230-2 100 : wall-hung, fanned flue, gas-fired - removing casing isn't an easy job.

But there is a pressure gauge on the expansion tank above the MegaFlow downstairs ...does that do the same job as a pressure gauge on a CH boiler ??

 

[zena123]

Hi JohnD: (1) After your post earlier, I had a look at a couple of YouTube videos on cleaning out the MagnaClean & think I can prob. manage it myself - but I need to check the clearances as it is fitted close to ceiling... And will re-watch videos several times before I try.
(2) Not sure if the boiler has a pressure gauge on it : am reading through the Manual now to see if I can find any info. on that. Boiler is an Ideal Classic FF 230-2 100 : wall-hung, fanned flue, gas-fired - removing casing isn't an easy job.

But there IS a pressure gauge on the expansion tank above the MegaFlow downstairs ...does that do the same job as a pressure gauge on a CH boiler ??

Later: Just found this in Users Guide, which is written for both Standard Classic & DeLuxe model (from which I assume my boiler doesn't have a pressure gauge, as mine is the Standard classic): (I include whole paragraph, though only first 3 lines seem to me to be relevant to your question.)

"Loss of system water pressure:
[Standard boilers fitted with Classic Sealed System Units only]
If the red arrow on the unit pressure gauge is set above zero and the system pressure is seen to fall below this value over a period of time then a water leak is indicated. In this event a CORGI registered installer should be consulted. DO NOT OPERATE THE BOILER IF THE PRESSURE HAS REDUCED TO ZERO FROM THE ORIGINAL SETTING." (their Capital Letters, not mine !)

Any opinions ?? Tx again, Zena

 

[JohnD]

No.

The relevance is that some boilers are filled with water and sealed under pressure (they generally have a pressure gauge) and the water is not renewed unless they need repressurising.

Some boilers are not sealed, and are topped up from a small tank, usually in the loft. The tank is open to the air and it is quite common with this type for fresh aerated water to move into the system. Air and water cause corrosion of steel. Radiators are made of steel. The black sludge is usually the result of the radiators corroding internally.

So if your boiler has no pressure gauge, it is more likely to have corrosion.

The Magnaclean will trap the circulating particles and help protect you from a blockage, but this type of system may benefit from a clean and new inhibitor at long intervals. It may go 20 years without needing it, or it could be much less if there is a defect. The amount of sludge in your Magnaclean will give some clues.

 

[ianmcd]

But there IS a pressure gauge on the expansion tank above the MegaFlow downstairs ...does that do the same job as a pressure gauge on a CH boiler ??

yes