Powermax 135 bangs when windy!

[nickso]

what utter rubbish....BG were never "banned" from working on powermax's....who would enforce such a ban?

in the meantime ignore agile's inflammatory and useless comments

Well Nickso, It seems that your view of the situation is not exactly the same as Ollski who said """ Bg were banned from making any adjustments on the gas valve pending the coroners report I believe."""

Its disappointing to me that you seem to be demonstrating a tendency of some BG staff to be quite rude and abusive. I hope that you do not talk to other BG customers like you talk to me!

There is no point in my suggesting what may be wrong with the boiler as the owner is not going to fix it himself. In any case I have not heard the boiler myself however, if it was an ignition problem as it appears, then I would be looking at the gas mixture and the ignition cable, spark generator and gas/spark timings.

Tony

hmm more rubbish.

1) ive aready stated no one was supposed to change the gas valve settings in the first place.....not just BG, no one. you stated they were banned from working on it, no they werent. get your facts right from your own post.

2) the things you have just stated as being possible faults seem to be all the things that BG have tried so far....so why then make statements that BG seem to be incompetent in this case? you were quick enough to make fun of their attempts to solve the problem but didnt suggest why or try to make any suggesttions of your own. i assumed from his post the OP was after general advice on the problem not a step by step repair method.

3) i very much doubt you find my attitude disapointing but even if you did you are not a BG customer and my posts were not meant to be abusive to anyone. perhaps you had better re-read them without your attitude in place which i find quite annoying in some cases. i find you to be the most curt and bordering on abusive after water systems.

4)repressurising a system is not part of the contract so that is not how they do 11 jobs a day. they shouldnt be doing those jobs for customers without charging them. do not equate your day to a BG engineers because it is pointless, you both work in completely different ways for a completely different customer base.

5)im not a BG employee. i wonder how many times ill have to say that

 

[Agile]

I am sorry that I thought from your good knowledge of BG practices, Contracts and your sensitivity about BG that you probably worked for them. Even so, nothing I said was irrelevant.

I did not "rubbish" what BG had done only repeat what their customer had reported.

If I was also banned from adjusting the gas valves then how was I meant to know? I did not read it on gas news or ARGI although I could always have missed it. Nor have I knowingly received any specific correspondence about it.

You said "i very much doubt you find my attitude disapointing but even if you did you are not a BG customer" Can I ask why you think that I am not a BG customer?

I can see nothing the OP has said about what BG have done apart from changing the gas valve and ignition electrodes. Unless you have access to BG service records then I dont know how you can state what they have done any more that you can know about my BG customer status.

Tony

 

[pwt1976]

Yo folks,

Just dropping a quick line, I'm not shouting at anyone on the BG line, just plodding away, it stumps me as much as anything, after continual whumping and thumping last night / this morning / daytime it's been fine tonight, so I've gotta sympathise with the engineers as I never like the "intermittent" jobs when they come my way in I.T.

In reference to BG being out of ideas, this was just the engineers opinion, personally I have a few ideas, pump, combustion mix, sludge, and magic fairies Although when the heating kicks in and you get the whine of the pump going, (without the boiler actually firing) there's no banging, only when the ignition lights does it start.

I've been aware of the dangers of changing gas valves, and can only hope that it came set, as I wasn't actually in when it was fitted. We have a carbon monoxide detector above the boiler so unless it blows up we should get notified - all joking aside, I don't like messing around with gas, it's why i'd never attempt anything myself outwith radiators etc.

I appreciate all the help thats offered here and it's not my intention to bad mouth anybody. Engineers generally try their best, and I doubt BG would be spending thousands training up their engineers in whats probably getting to be an out of date system. But they've been helpful with the exception of a couple who've run a mile, and even then I'd rather have them run than mess with a gas system they didn't know.

I'll let you know what the outcome is tomorrow, although if it doesn't start banging again I'm gonna feel like an idiot. Bg have always been polite and courteous, just not very efficient, but put me in front of a 15yr old printer and i'd probably be stuck too, until the guy who can fix them gets back from holiday

 

[nickso]

I am sorry that I thought from your good knowledge of BG practices, Contracts and your sensitivity about BG that you probably worked for them. Even so, nothing I said was irrelevant.

I did not "rubbish" what BG had done only repeat what their customer had reported.

If I was also banned from adjusting the gas valves then how was I meant to know? I did not read it on gas news or ARGI although I could always have missed it. Nor have I knowingly received any specific correspondence about it.

You said "i very much doubt you find my attitude disapointing but even if you did you are not a BG customer" Can I ask why you think that I am not a BG customer?

I can see nothing the OP has said about what BG have done apart from changing the gas valve and ignition electrodes. Unless you have access to BG service records then I dont know how you can state what they have done any more that you can know about my BG customer status.

Tony

fair enough then. perhaps some misunderstandings on both sides.

i am an ex BG employee but i have no loyalty to them or any other company despite what you think. what constantly annoys me is the amount of abuse BG get on this board without any reply except from the few BG engineers who post on here. most of the attacks are completely unfounded with no evidence to back them up and serve no purpose except to extend the ego of the person attacking. believe me tony if i knew a fact about your business and someone attacked it i would defend you in the same way.

are you a BG customer? unless you get energy from them i doubt you are. if im wrong i apologise, seem odd to be so knowledgeable and use them for repairs.

the gas valves are not to be adjusted per manufacturers instructions although i admit with hindsight this could only be for a few models.... i would need to confirm that. BG themselves stopped their engineers changing gas valves.....the manufacturer did it for them, they are now doing themselves again.

those parts that have been replaced by BG are all within the scope of the possible solutions you suggested although i admit we have no idea if they did those checks when the parts were put in.

 

[Agile]

Thats much nicer thank you! We are both colleagues in the same business after all!

BG have perhaps nearly 30% of the UK boiler repair business and I think offer a good training and career structure. They are perceived as offering a generally good and prompt service although the reality may not always be that true. They have enough staff to cover holidays and sickness which many smaller firms cannot.

Something is clearly wrong within BG when I see external adverts for team leaders in charge of 11 engineers at a quite reasonable salary and see chatter on various bulletins which indicate that the existing engineers dont want to apply for them. I dont know enough about BG to know whats wrong.

Its only natural that this kind of forum will occasionally have reports of situations where BG has not been able to provide an adequate service. In most cases this is either a junior inexperienced engineer or a rather specialised boiler unit like a Powermax.

I am aware of one of the BG shortcomings, they see engineers as staff numbers and dont give them "ownership" of the job. If it will take a little time some pretend not to know what is needed in the secure knowledge that someone else will be despatched the next day. They are not encouraged to telephone customers. The name of the engineer is never given to the customer. Some enginers tiptoe up to the property and stick a card in the letterbox instead of knocking.

I dont need BG for boiler repairs but sometimes its convenient as a gas supplier if I dont have time to deal with the hassle of changing.

Tony

 

[pwt1976]

Well manager guy came out, spent 40mins, says there's nothing more they can do as everything is either new or nearly new. Reckons gas / air mix is too high and it cannot be adjusted as it's been locked in place by the council when it was fitted. I smell a fob off, can anyone back me up on this?

On to heatteam just now, needs a guy with a differential monomitor (spelling?), man nothing runs smoothly, how come there's more university graduates than ever and yet expertise is going down the tubes!

Back to house.co.uk helpdesk

 

[nickso]

Well manager guy came out, spent 40mins, says there's nothing more they can do as everything is either new or nearly new. Reckons gas / air mix is too high and it cannot be adjusted as it's been locked in place by the council when it was fitted. I smell a fob off, can anyone back me up on this?

Also can anyone fix this in the Motherwell area?

how can the council have "locked" the gas rate/mix in place if BG replaced the gas valve?

i would ask that they get the manufacturer out if they cant fix it. we can only assume from your description there is an obvious fault there and saying that everything is new is hardly a defence. they will resist as it costs them a lot of money. do you know what the GC number of your appliance is?

tony....the team leader job is a waste of time for the money they offer. the only ones who go for it are the ones who now hate looking at boilers and cant be bothered with the performance targets. the career structure is poor in my opinion especially for a regional engineer who would have to move to an area centre to get any reasonable promotion. in most promotions you will lose money as you lose shift bonuses and whatever you get from sales.

the biggest problem BG have is time. the engineers simply dont get enough of it. some, like myself, simply ignored the time constraints,sales etc and just went out and fixed things on a take as long as it will take basis. that puts heavy pressure on you as you are unlikely to make the targets if you do that, although your customer satisfaction is high. it gets tiresome though and thats why i left.

there is nothing that can be done about an inexperienced engineer other than giving him/her training and allowing them to learn.

we were encouraged to phone customers but sometimes there was little point phoning them to tell them you were 3 streets away. they are either in or they arent. passing jobs on was always a problem but if you cheat the system as much as it cheats you then there are ways around long jobs.

 

[pwt1976]

Phoned back, explained to BG i'd phoned heatteam, BG have requested that the manufacturer (of which heatteam is the service division) give me a call to arrange an appointment.

 

[nickso]

thats fine then...BG pay for it and you get the manufacturer to look at it.

 

[pwt1976]

Seems this is going to be more hassle! No call has been passed to manufacturer, they want to send another engineer. I thought the escalation process was too easy. Supposedly it's being escalated to a manager!

Tempted to just get Gasco to come out and pay for it myself, they fitted them around here and if a council one goes faulty then they come out and fix it, usually first time. Anyone i've spoken to has had the banging fault at one time or another, so it's not unique to me.

But then again, why am I paying a maintenance contract for something that British Gas cannot even diagnose a fault on, never mind fix!!!!

 

[Agile]

You are paying BG for your maintenance contract so just rest assured that they will sort it out eventually.

If their staff cannot do it then BG will call in the manufacturer whose Heateam division will sort it out.

Be aware that these are something of a specialist model and there are rumours that the gas valve should not be adjusted except by Heateam. The actual situation is not important because its better that somebody who is not technically comfortable should not start adjusting it.

I think you mean the BG are sending someone else. If so then one hopes they are sending one of their staff who is experienced with that model. If so I expect ( and hope ) they will fix it for you.

Goos luck but tell us the outcome.

Tony

 

[gazthepottertonengineer]

sorry if this has been mentioned before (cant be arsed to read back all of the posts) but if this boiler is a 135 model and it has the old style gas valve then there was a recall on it sometime ago which basically means Heateam come out and fit new style gas valve free of charge anyway

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/fire_safety/recalls/detail.asp?id=276

 

[Agile]

You must have been away on holiday!

He said on the 11 Jan:-

"""Well, Gas valve upgraded. No difference. Can't find anyone who'll commit to fixing it without running through all the parts at my cost (which is pretty much what BG are doing except i'm on contract)."""

I dont know how BG or Heateam operate but after replacing a preset gas valve wouldn't they check the operating paramaters with a flue gas analyser? Isn't there a CO2 percentage range to set it within? 8-9% perhaps?

Tony

 

[pwt1976]

Yeah the boiler was maintained by the council, the original gas valve upgrade was done ages ago as there's a sticker on the boiler to say its been done. BG had replaced again as it may have been the problem. No further forward tho, BG have it now logged as a complaint and the person who said there would be a manufacturers visit was not authorised to do so, so i'm waiting on a phone call back.

One interesting thing, it's quietened down again, no longer banging continually but still a fair few times throughout the day, but there's a nice rattle coming from inside the boiler, almost sounds like crap floating about inside the boiler / pipes, making various clunk noises when it's heating up.

Maybe it's just filled with crap inside or it's blocked, I dunno, but you'd think that would've been easy enough to diagnose so I'm not gonna waste time pretending to know anything. It would just be nice to be told one way or other whats wrong, if it's past it then so be it, it's 10yr old after all, but the heating and water is still tip-top!

 

[nickso]

still not sure of your exact model but maybe its the turbulators in the heatex that are corroded/blocked....thats a big guess though.

cant really understand why its taking so long to get a manufacturer to visit. if its escalated properly the guy who authorises is directly above the engineer so its a simple case of him phoning and getting a yes or no answer. most managers says yes just to get the engineer out on the patch to fix other things, rather than spending a lot of time on something he may not find.

whatever it turns out to be i would be gently reminding the manager about the time taken to find the fault if its something they want to charge you for.