thanks Tony -
You'll have to forgive me - what is the APS and where would I find that?
Thanks again.
Dave
You'll have to forgive me - what is the APS and where would I find that?
Thanks again.
Dave
Pressure loss (Halsted Ace High)
- Thread starter iwishiwasaplumber
- Start date
Sponsored Links
I think you'll find 'agile' meant the AAV which has a loose cap that I mentioned. You can close this while you test. I don't re-call you saying you had tried this.
Hi Guys, does anyone know where exactly the valve is that I have to top up with 10 psi for the expansion chamber. I know I have to drain the boiler then put 10 psi in the top.
Problem is, for the life of me I can't find the valve. Didn't it used to be on the very top ?
I looked behind the boiler plate and couldn't see it there either.
Thanks
Problem is, for the life of me I can't find the valve. Didn't it used to be on the very top ?
I looked behind the boiler plate and couldn't see it there either.
Thanks
On the 'ace high' which is basically the same, the expansion vessel is fitted at the rear at the top. Mine is red about 300mm diam and 100mm wide. The scheder valve is on top, anywhere else and you won't be able to access it. A pair of step ladders will be needed.
Sponsored Links
Thanks Mandate, I found the expansion valve, It's an Ace High Model. For anyone else who can't find it. It's at the top, at very back, on the right hand side, It has a blue cap. You have to be on a step ladder with your chin on the flue to see it.
I pumped it up to 10 psi and it seems to have stopped the constant leak of hot water out of the overflow.
The next problem I have is, there is a constant drip, drip, drip, from the sensor at the opposite end, of the pressure release knob.
It's on the left hand side, Its an oblong black sensor about 1cm wide by 70mm, It seems to swivel round, and has 2 wires coming out of it.
How do I stop the leak at the joint ? Is this sensor detachable from the brass fitting ? There is no obvious nut to tighten other than a hex nut about 4mm wide that looks to be part of the brass fitting itself. I thought if I could get it apart I'd be able to fix it with some ptfe tape or boss white or replace the O ring that it might swivel on. But I couldn't be sure how to get it apart without breaking the plastic sensor off. So my question is how do I fix the swivelling joint the sensor is mounted on, that wont stop dripping.
Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. This is the first Halstead Ace High I've seen.
I pumped it up to 10 psi and it seems to have stopped the constant leak of hot water out of the overflow.
The next problem I have is, there is a constant drip, drip, drip, from the sensor at the opposite end, of the pressure release knob.
It's on the left hand side, Its an oblong black sensor about 1cm wide by 70mm, It seems to swivel round, and has 2 wires coming out of it.
How do I stop the leak at the joint ? Is this sensor detachable from the brass fitting ? There is no obvious nut to tighten other than a hex nut about 4mm wide that looks to be part of the brass fitting itself. I thought if I could get it apart I'd be able to fix it with some ptfe tape or boss white or replace the O ring that it might swivel on. But I couldn't be sure how to get it apart without breaking the plastic sensor off. So my question is how do I fix the swivelling joint the sensor is mounted on, that wont stop dripping.
Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. This is the first Halstead Ace High I've seen.
Your oblong black sensor 1cm by 70mm is not a sensor, it's a microswitch held inside a plastic housing. In fact there are two of these, they are both secured by the same method. They just fit on the protruding spigot which has a groove and then a spring clip is pushed in from the side. The clips are quite tight and easy to remove, just wriggle with pliers.
What you're dealing with is the diverter valve. On the right is a diaphragm assembley. When you open the hot water tap (mains pressure) it removes the pressure from one side of the diaphragm so the diverter valve moves to the left. The spindle which protrudes at the left side also moves and closes the micro switch.
There will be water within the diverter housing, so I presume you will need to drain the boiler if dismantle.
I would advise reading the instruction manual to see what you are dealing with. I think it might be a 'O' that is leaking. http://www.hgdheating.co.uk/downloads/SEBoiler/AceAceHigh Manual.pdf
What you're dealing with is the diverter valve. On the right is a diaphragm assembley. When you open the hot water tap (mains pressure) it removes the pressure from one side of the diaphragm so the diverter valve moves to the left. The spindle which protrudes at the left side also moves and closes the micro switch.
There will be water within the diverter housing, so I presume you will need to drain the boiler if dismantle.
I would advise reading the instruction manual to see what you are dealing with. I think it might be a 'O' that is leaking. http://www.hgdheating.co.uk/downloads/SEBoiler/AceAceHigh Manual.pdf
Thanks again Mandate. I downloded the manual but I couldnt find much about the O rings.
Well I've taken the microswitch off, I undid the hex nut and retrieved the spring and spindle thing, as it shot across the room at 100 mph LOL.
I checked the O ring on the other end of the spindle which seems to be ok but I went to B&Q and got a new O ring anyway. Although the old one looks slightly fatter (3/32 is the fatest B&Q do ) I put the new one on, and still get a drip drip drip out of the spindle hole.
My question is this. Is the thickness of the O ring criticle. ?
I can see that, when the diaphram moves, it pushes spindle - which in turn pushes the microswitch. I can only imagine that the O ring slides along the inernal chamber keeping it watertight. I don't know if this is how it actaully works, as I can't see inside, without taking it all appart, (which I'd like to avoid). I put my little finger inside where the spring and spindle goes and it came out black. I presume I should try to clean this.
Any help is greatly apprecited.
Well I've taken the microswitch off, I undid the hex nut and retrieved the spring and spindle thing, as it shot across the room at 100 mph LOL.
I checked the O ring on the other end of the spindle which seems to be ok but I went to B&Q and got a new O ring anyway. Although the old one looks slightly fatter (3/32 is the fatest B&Q do ) I put the new one on, and still get a drip drip drip out of the spindle hole.
My question is this. Is the thickness of the O ring criticle. ?
I can see that, when the diaphram moves, it pushes spindle - which in turn pushes the microswitch. I can only imagine that the O ring slides along the inernal chamber keeping it watertight. I don't know if this is how it actaully works, as I can't see inside, without taking it all appart, (which I'd like to avoid). I put my little finger inside where the spring and spindle goes and it came out black. I presume I should try to clean this.
Any help is greatly apprecited.
'O' rings dont slide when in use, the spindle will slide through the 'O' ring.
The size of 'O' ring is fairly critical. the cross section before use is 'round' but will go slightly egg shaped when fitted, otherwise water will pass between ring and spindle or ring and housing.
For the 'O' ring to squash slightly the outside diam and inside diam are critical.
I think you'll not find it easy to identify the size so you can purchase without going to halstead
The size of 'O' ring is fairly critical. the cross section before use is 'round' but will go slightly egg shaped when fitted, otherwise water will pass between ring and spindle or ring and housing.
For the 'O' ring to squash slightly the outside diam and inside diam are critical.
I think you'll not find it easy to identify the size so you can purchase without going to halstead
Hi Mandate, thanks again.
I'm not overly familiar with O ring thickness's and I imagine the next size O ring up from 3/32 is 1/8 so I'll go off today and see if any merchants have any (or a selection of them ). I have the old O ring to compare which is annoyingly still round, and not oval, I'll try anything to stop the drip.
Correct me if I am wrong. I was trying to work out how it works, to help me understand how to fix it. From what I can see there appears to be two spindles. One that the diaphragm pushes (when hot water is called), and another spindle that pushes the micro switch. (which is the bit that leaks)
On the end where the hex nut is, when I undid this, I found a spring, and a spindle with a round plastic cog looking thing fixed on the end. On this plastic cog is the O ring around it's circumference.
Both spindles appear to be aligned longitudinally. What I imagine happens is, that the diaphragm spindle pushes onto the plastic cog (on the end of the switch spindle), causing the switch spindle to travel about 6mm, pushing the micro switch.
I thought the O ring moved within a cylindrical chamber because my thinking was, if the O ring (with the plastic cog) closes off an aperture, when the diaphragm spindle pushes this cog along 6 mm, the cog would now be be 6mm away from the aperture, causing water to leak out.
So logic (well my logic LOL) told me it had to slide within a chamber at least 6mm long keeping a seal at all times. On the other hand I also thought that if this is how it was designed, the O ring would probably need changing weekly with the constant movement with every call for hot water, and it would surly wear it out quickly. (*scratching my head*)
Anyways, I get some O rings, stick it on and see if it stops the leak. I'll ignore the intricacies of how it works, if I can just get it to stop leaking with the right size O ring.
sorry for the ramble Mandate, I'll keep you updated in case it helps anyone else with this problem.
I'm not overly familiar with O ring thickness's and I imagine the next size O ring up from 3/32 is 1/8 so I'll go off today and see if any merchants have any (or a selection of them ). I have the old O ring to compare which is annoyingly still round, and not oval, I'll try anything to stop the drip.
Correct me if I am wrong. I was trying to work out how it works, to help me understand how to fix it. From what I can see there appears to be two spindles. One that the diaphragm pushes (when hot water is called), and another spindle that pushes the micro switch. (which is the bit that leaks)
On the end where the hex nut is, when I undid this, I found a spring, and a spindle with a round plastic cog looking thing fixed on the end. On this plastic cog is the O ring around it's circumference.
Both spindles appear to be aligned longitudinally. What I imagine happens is, that the diaphragm spindle pushes onto the plastic cog (on the end of the switch spindle), causing the switch spindle to travel about 6mm, pushing the micro switch.
I thought the O ring moved within a cylindrical chamber because my thinking was, if the O ring (with the plastic cog) closes off an aperture, when the diaphragm spindle pushes this cog along 6 mm, the cog would now be be 6mm away from the aperture, causing water to leak out.
So logic (well my logic LOL) told me it had to slide within a chamber at least 6mm long keeping a seal at all times. On the other hand I also thought that if this is how it was designed, the O ring would probably need changing weekly with the constant movement with every call for hot water, and it would surly wear it out quickly. (*scratching my head*)
Anyways, I get some O rings, stick it on and see if it stops the leak. I'll ignore the intricacies of how it works, if I can just get it to stop leaking with the right size O ring.
sorry for the ramble Mandate, I'll keep you updated in case it helps anyone else with this problem.
Hi orange1234. Sorry I can't help much on this as I've never dismantled the end bit. You may well be right in your logic.
Generally a 'O' ring is retained in a groove. The groove could be on the outer part if a spindle is to slide through the inside diameter. Or the groove could be on the inner part if like you say the outside diameter is to slide back and forth.
In lots of situations, once two parts are fitted and a water tight joint is formed using a 'O' ring, the ring does not move again and nothing slides against it.
I think forming a water tight joint when one part is required to move relative to the other has always been a bit of a problem.
Most valves have gland boxes filled with gland packing and can be tightened if leaks occur.
I have seen pump valves with 'O' ring fitted, but the valves are seldom closed and reopened.
Push type plumbing uses 'O' rings but again only meant to be used a few times.
If the 'O' ring is too loose you will have leakage and if too tight too much resistance to allow correct operation.
'O' rings come in many different sizes in both imperial and metric so it does seem a bit of trial and error.
You might try measuring the existing one, it may give you some idea.
Hope you resolve your problem
Generally a 'O' ring is retained in a groove. The groove could be on the outer part if a spindle is to slide through the inside diameter. Or the groove could be on the inner part if like you say the outside diameter is to slide back and forth.
In lots of situations, once two parts are fitted and a water tight joint is formed using a 'O' ring, the ring does not move again and nothing slides against it.
I think forming a water tight joint when one part is required to move relative to the other has always been a bit of a problem.
Most valves have gland boxes filled with gland packing and can be tightened if leaks occur.
I have seen pump valves with 'O' ring fitted, but the valves are seldom closed and reopened.
Push type plumbing uses 'O' rings but again only meant to be used a few times.
If the 'O' ring is too loose you will have leakage and if too tight too much resistance to allow correct operation.
'O' rings come in many different sizes in both imperial and metric so it does seem a bit of trial and error.
You might try measuring the existing one, it may give you some idea.
Hope you resolve your problem
Hi guys, I'm back, I'm still trying to fix this ace high boiler,
I bought a service kit for the DHW switch off ebay and it cost £28 (instead of halsteads £68 and the local merchants £45) It comes with all the innards springy bits and once you take off the big nuts ether end it fits in easily enough. No leak yeahhhh.!!!!! No ignition noooo00
I went through ignition fault finding flowchart and found the pump has seized and wasn't spinning. So I took it apart and scraped all the scale out and refitted it. it now spins freely.
The problem now
The electric water pressure switch, isn't being switched by the water pressure piston.
I have pressurised the system to 2 bar, and I call for hot water, and it fires up, I then manually press the water pressure switch, with my screwdriver, then the boiler fires up fine. So the problem now seems to be with the water pressure switch piston.
I took the 4 screws off, and checked the WPS diaphragm and it seems ok, I couldnt feel, or see a tear, I turned the water on a bit, and the water pushed up the diaphragm up..... but not when its assembled, (the piston is free its not stuck or anything)
There's tons of pressure, the pump runs... I just cant figure this out.
ideas anyone ?
[/b]
I bought a service kit for the DHW switch off ebay and it cost £28 (instead of halsteads £68 and the local merchants £45) It comes with all the innards springy bits and once you take off the big nuts ether end it fits in easily enough. No leak yeahhhh.!!!!! No ignition noooo00
I went through ignition fault finding flowchart and found the pump has seized and wasn't spinning. So I took it apart and scraped all the scale out and refitted it. it now spins freely.
The problem now
The electric water pressure switch, isn't being switched by the water pressure piston.
I have pressurised the system to 2 bar, and I call for hot water, and it fires up, I then manually press the water pressure switch, with my screwdriver, then the boiler fires up fine. So the problem now seems to be with the water pressure switch piston.
I took the 4 screws off, and checked the WPS diaphragm and it seems ok, I couldnt feel, or see a tear, I turned the water on a bit, and the water pushed up the diaphragm up..... but not when its assembled, (the piston is free its not stuck or anything)
There's tons of pressure, the pump runs... I just cant figure this out.
ideas anyone ?
[/b]
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
