Pyro

[Andy34]

Hi

I am doing some work in a shop I am opening and having taken down a wall we have found a pyro and it is in the way. Does anybody know if this can be moved. It runs through the building but we only occupy the grd flr and basement which is where it terminates. Any help would be very appreciated as at the moment we are looking at having to decorate it with something!!! It needs to move along about 1 metre to the main wall as whoever installed ran it down 2 floors through the main wall and then decided to come about 1 metre in and run it through a thermal wall and then down to the basement. All help gratefull received.

 

[roughcaster]

Maybe this post should be in Electrics UK. (Moved from Trade Talk)

Roughcaster.

 

[333rocky333]

How fat is this cable
A lot of old submains were done in pyro.
If it is, 10mm and 16mm terminations are hard to get these days

 

[Andy34]

Thank You for moving it.

Maybe this post should be in Electrics UK. (Moved from Trade Talk)

Roughcaster.

 

[Andy34]

It is in a copper sheath I would say not more than 10mm - not even that I would say maybe 8mm but I will check it tomorrow. Thank you.

How fat is this cable
A lot of old submains were done in pyro.
If it is, 10mm and 16mm terminations are hard to get these days

 

[333rocky333]

If no more than 10 mm total diameter, then its most likely a circuit rather

than a sub main,it is movable to a certain extent but treat carefully.

In the basement on the end will be a brass gland, the size is stamped on that, ie 2h2.5 or something.

Any sharp bends or nicks in the cable could snap it and then you are stuffed.

If you need to lengthen it any way, this is harder as you will need special

tools and knowledge how to terminate it.

If it is too short to reroute and you know what the cable does it could

work out cheaper to replace the

length in swa cable .

Have you checked were it goes, you may find it no longer in use or even

part of an old fire alarm system

 

[Andy34]

Hello and thank you. I should have explaned this better. It is definitely for a fire alarm. It is a 4 storey building. WE occupy the ground floor and basement. It comes through our ceiling about 1 metre in from the main wall in what was a thermal wall which we have removed - it then goes through our floor into the basement and straight into the fire alarm. The section that is causing us trouble seems to be just from the floor above and then through us and into the alarm. I do not think from what you say that it can be done then as it will be too short as it currently goes straight in to the alarm. Damn.

If no more than 10 mm total diameter, then its most likely a circuit rather

than a sub main,it is movable to a certain extent but treat carefully.

In the basement on the end will be a brass gland, the size is stamped on that, ie 2h2.5 or something.

Any sharp bends or nicks in the cable could snap it and then you are stuffed.

If you need to lengthen it any way, this is harder as you will need special

tools and knowledge how to terminate it.

If it is too short to reroute and you know what the cable does it could

work out cheaper to replace the

length in swa cable .

 

[electronicsuk]

Call out the company responsible for maintenance of the alarm, if it is only a short run of cable as you seem to be suggesting then it will be an easy job for them to run a new cable.

 

[333rocky333]

Depending on the size you have, it could be replaced, but it may have to also be done in pyro,
There is other fire rated cables but lots of regs, regarding there use,depending on the type of premises, etc.
Smaller size pyro terminations are still available, so check the size when you return.
There is a possibility it can be cut and a new section fitted from the cut to the basement.
As you dont own the whole building it would most likely need doing by a fire alarm contractor as they need to be done to there own British Standard.

Also look to see if it is a bell cable or a detector/call point.
If it is a bell the contractor can cut it add a bell for the joint, then run a new cable back to the panel.
If a Zone cable then it will need an appropriate approved joint and new cable run direct to the panel.
The cable is most likely fault monitered, so if you did disconnect it or cut it, then the panel will beep and show a fault till you reinstate it.

 

[Andy34]

Hello and thank you. I should have explaned this better. It is definitely for a fire alarm. It is a 4 storey building. WE occupy the ground floor and basement. It comes through our ceiling about 1 metre in from the main wall in what was a thermal wall which we have removed - it then goes through our floor into the basement and straight into the fire alarm. The section that is causing us trouble seems to be just from the floor above and then through us and into the alarm. I do not think from what you say that it can be done then as it will be too short as it currently goes straight in to the alarm. Damn.

If no more than 10 mm total diameter, then its most likely a circuit rather

than a sub main,it is movable to a certain extent but treat carefully.

In the basement on the end will be a brass gland, the size is stamped on that, ie 2h2.5 or something.

Any sharp bends or nicks in the cable could snap it and then you are stuffed.

If you need to lengthen it any way, this is harder as you will need special

tools and knowledge how to terminate it.

If it is too short to reroute and you know what the cable does it could

work out cheaper to replace the

length in swa cable .

 

[Andy34]

Well in the basement it is definitely to the bell and that is it. However the other side of the bell has another one going to the final point by the consumer board. I am not sure without getting access to upstairs where it come from at their point but I should imagine a break point on the assumption that when they hit it it rings our bell or is that a bit simple. The name on the bell is Gent of Leicester - are they still about do you know. I would day that the bit from our ceiling into the bell is about 6-7 metres but I do not know if it terminates at the other end on the floor above or goes through to the top floor. Thank you for your help.




[quoer onete="333rocky333";p="961779"]Depending on the size you have, it could be replaced, but it may have to also be done in pyro,
There is other fire rated cables but lots of regs, regarding there use,depending on the type of premises, etc.
Smaller size pyro terminations are still available, so check the size when you return.
There is a possibility it can be cut and a new section fitted from the cut to the basement.
As you dont own the whole building it would most likely need doing by a fire alarm contractor as they need to be done to there own British Standard.

Also look to see if it is a bell cable or a detector/call point.
If it is a bell the contractor can cut it add a bell for the joint, then run a new cable back to the panel.
If a Zone cable then it will need an appropriate approved joint and new cable run direct to the panel.
The cable is most likely fault monitered, so if you did disconnect it or cut it, then the panel will beep and show a fault till you reinstate it.[/quote]

 

[electronicsuk]

Well in the basement it is definitely to the bell and that is it. However the other side of the bell has another one going to the final point by the consumer board. I am not sure without getting access to upstairs where it come from at their point but I should imagine a break point on the assumption that when they hit it it rings our bell or is that a bit simple.

It will either be a bell or sensor/call point circuit, not both. If you can clearly see the wire exiting from a bell on your part of the premises then it will almost certainly go to more bells throughout the building.

Gent of Leicester - are they still about do you know. I would day that the bit from our ceiling into the bell is about 6-7 metres but I do not know if it terminates at the other end on the floor above or goes through to the top floor. Thank you for your help.

Yes, Gent still exist, although it is of little relevance as there are plenty of other manufacturers of bells/sirens too. It also doesn't really matter where it goes once it leaves your premises, as long as you can confirm it's a bell/sounder circuit then a contractor will be able to insert a new bell and extend the cable as per Rocky's post.

 

[333rocky333]

You will need to check the gland for the size when you return,if it is 3 or 4core it could do more than just the bell.

If poss get some pics of the fire panel if there is one and the bell etc.
what floor is the panel on

Also check the make on the panel how many zones in use, and if each floor has its own zone.

The age of the existing bells dont matter , a new one just matches the panel voltage usually 12 or 24 volt

what do you call the final point by the board,is it a break glass, or the power supply.
it sounds to me like an old 3 wire system with no panel, possibly mains voltage.

 

[RF Lighting]

I was just about to say that.

Bells are fairly uncommon on ELV fire alarms (but not unknown)

If it is a mains system, chances are that the pyro will be imperial sized, and would need to be replaced, as you can't get the pot seals any more.

 

[Andy34]

You will need to check the gland for the size when you return,if it is 3 or 4core it could do more than just the bell.

If poss get some pics of the fire panel if there is one and the bell etc.
what floor is the panel on

Also check the make on the panel how many zones in use, and if each floor has its own zone.

You know what I haven't seen a panel - I would have thought we would have in the basement as thats where the power is but maybe not. It is possible that at some point the building was used as one. I'll have to check.

The age of the existing bells dont matter , a new one just matches the panel voltage usually 12 or 24 volt

what do you call the final point by the board,is it a break glass, or the power supply.
it sounds to me like an old 3 wire system with no panel, possibly mains voltage.

As I say I have not seen a panel. Basically in the power room just above the baord there are 2 glands. The circuit in question goes into the bell in the basement. 1 of the glands seems to go into the break glass point on the ground floor. The other gland goes out of the room and into the bell in the basement. That's all there is. It definitely does not go into a board as that has just been replaced for our floor. The point it seems to stop is just above the board but it does dissappear into a long box where all the power seems to eminate from and then feed our 2 floors and the above 2 floors seperately so I suppose that could be the main power in therefore suggesting it is mains volatge. I will take pictures if that will help.