Q about a commercial induction hob

[morqthana]

I'm quite interested in this

DROP-IN INDUCTION STOVE 2 HOBS ONLY SUITABLE FOR INDUCTION PANS

INBOUW INDUCTIE KOOKPLAAT 2 ZONES ALLEEN GESCHIKT VOOR INDUCTIE PANNEN

www.combisteel.com

Combisteel Drop-In Induction Stove 2 Hobs - 7505.0020 | Empire Supplies Commercial Catering Equipment

Discover top-quality commercial catering equipment at Empire Supplies. Our extensive range includes reliable ovens, fryers, refrigerators, and more, designed to meet the demands of any professional kitchen. Enhance your catering operations with durable, high-performance equipment backed by...

www.empiresuppliesonline.co.uk

I can see why, for commercial kitchens, it makes sense to offer 3-phase kit, even if a 7kW appliance doesn't need to be 3-phase, but I'm wondering if, under the hood, it really does have 400V innards, or if it's really two separate 3.5kW appliances, using off-the-shelf 230V units, each connected to a different phase?

And would therefore work fine in my kitchen.

I've asked the maker, and if they say it is a genuine 3-phase item, or won't tell me, there's nothing I can do, but I'm curious to know if people think I'm likely to be right.

 

[Mottie]

or if it's really two separate 3.5kW appliances, using off-the-shelf 230V units,

I have a non-commercial Neff induction hob. Wiring from my consumer unit is a standard 6mm cable to a cooker switch however there were 5 cables from the hob to the switch. One earth. Two lives and two neutrals going to two separate connections on the hob so must be two units. I know I can only use one 'fast boil' setting on each side, no matter which 'ring' I’m using.

 

[ericmark]

The question is why are you asking? The use of split phase hobs has been common well before induction hobs hit the market place, mainly as in other countries the split phase to domestic premises was common, however split phase is 460 volt not 400 volt, and with a three phase supply we want a balance between the phases.

Using a single phase 400 volt appliance will not give a balance unless three used, and they will not work with a split phase supply. It would be a nightmare to try and balance a multi 400 volt appliances unless they all use the three phases.

"Electrical power (kW) 2x 3,5" is not three phase. Both the adverts you link to say the same, they are not 3 phase, neither are they split phase (wrong voltage) maybe not designed for the UK or Europe?

Two and three are not the same.

 

[morqthana]

The question is why are you asking?

Might want to buy one.

Using a single phase 400 volt appliance will not give a balance unless three used, and they will not work with a split phase supply. It would be a nightmare to try and balance a multi 400 volt appliances unless they all use the three phases.

I'm not suggesting it might be a single phase 400V appliance. I'm suggesting it might be two single phase 230V ones.

"Electrical power (kW) 2x 3,5" is not three phase.

I took that to be an indication to buyers of the "cooking power" of each "burner".

Both the adverts you link to say the same, they are not 3 phase, neither are they split phase (wrong voltage) maybe not designed for the UK or Europe?

I admit I assumed that a product sold here as "400V" would be a 3-phase one. How many people have 400V single-phase power available?

And the maker is Dutch, their website works in Dutch, English, French & German, and it is on sale in the UK.

 

[ericmark]

Which then asks the question, in the EU how many have a split phase v three phase supply? Although in the UK split phase is not common, in the main farms, in rest of Europe split phase is common, so most users would have a 460 volt supply where in UK 400 volt more common.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Although in the UK split phase is not common, in the main farms, in rest of Europe split phase is common, so most users would have a 460 volt supply where in UK 400 volt more common.

The only 2 European countries I am familiar with have 3-phase 400V to each house as the norm.

 

[opps]

I'm not suggesting it might be a single phase 400V appliance. I'm suggesting it might be two single phase 230V ones.

380-400V is what their installation instructions say.

https://www.combisteel.com/en/amfile/file/download/file/860737/product/4044/

I have never worked on 3 phase, but, no I don't think you can run 2 lots of 230/240v to it. It would still only be 230/240v

 

[opps]

I admit I assumed that a product sold here as "400V" would be a 3-phase one. How many people have 400V single-phase power available?

And the maker is Dutch, their website works in Dutch, English, French & German, and it is on sale in the UK.

It is a commercial product. All of the EU offers 3 phase to commercial units. The product is sold via site thats sell to the trade and do not display the prices with VAT (meaning that they consider themselves to be business to business only).

 

[Rodders53]

380 V Europe 415 V UK was the old standard... 400V the new harmonised nominal. (As is 230V single phase to UK 240V. So the device seems rated to use 3 phase voltages overall.

Opps linked install manual has three lines, earth and no neutral (labelled A, B, C and E) on the diagram but also mentions 3N~ :rotfl: so as clear as mud what is actually in that unit.

If the device is like many domestic induction hobs and has a N then it may be acceptable to strap the 3 lives together as single phase plus N ?

Or not. If the controller is a clever 3-phase electronics job to the different induction coils. Or if the hob Neutral wiring internally isn't up to the full load current in single phase operation.

The makers' technical support probably need asking.

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/falcon-one-6-zone-induction-boiling-top-e1603i/hw953 has a spec sheet using the same 400 V 3N~ term and L1, L2 and L3 are each 16 A. Falcon are in Scotland. So it's not just the EU that makes 400 V, 3 phase commercial cooking appliances.

 

[ericmark]

The only 2 European countries I am familiar with have 3-phase 400V to each house as the norm.

Three phase or split phase? I got caught out in Algeria in the 80's, with a 110 volt 3 phase supply, Which is 190 volt phase to phase, not the same as the USA 120 volt with 220 volt phase to phase, in the main equipment today uses switch mode power supplies and can run on a huge range of voltages, but using a single phase from a supply looking at 380 to 480 volt line to line, this is rather a lot for any non switch mode device to handle.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Three phase or split phase?

I mean 3 phases, 120º apart. (Germany and Sweden). Cookers have a three phase plug.

 

[ericmark]

If three phase i.e. as you say 120º apart. Then one would expect it to use all three phases and not require a neutral. It would state three phase and neutral if the neutral is required, so you are talking about a 4 pin plug not a 5 pin plug?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

If three phase i.e. as you say 120º apart. Then one would expect it to use all three phases and not require a neutral. It would state three phase and neutral if the neutral is required, so you are talking about a 4 pin plug not a 5 pin plug?

I think you are making unjustified assumptions. Here is a Swedish cooker plug. 3 phases, neutral plus earth.

 

[ericmark]

Commercial three phase UK use these in the main, for single and three phase these so having a twin hob running on 400 volt would use either, but if 230 volt one area and 230 volt other area then it would need the neutral, and neither are using three phases, so the worry would be is the split phase 400 volt or 460 volt between lines.

 

[morqthana]

It is a commercial product.

I know.

All of the EU offers 3 phase to commercial units.

Yes, but it isn't entirely clear if this actually is a 3-phase item?

The product is sold via site thats sell to the trade and do not display the prices with VAT (meaning that they consider themselves to be business to business only).

So?