Qualification
- Thread starter limakilo
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There are a number of courses available, but do not be fooled into believing that those promising to make you an electrician in 6 weeks actually do. It is really all about progression and could easily take up to 4 years to achieve all the suitable qualification that is without taking a foundation course (which TBH at your age should not be required and if it is? I would give up now!! As it is for complete numpties, no disrespect.)
I would personal get some advice from you local collage or training provider, it would normally break down to a couple of years doing a basic level 2 course, then progression to a level 3 and then attaining the wiring regulation qualification(which is currently 17th edition and will likely be 18th edition very soon). There are other course that will be valuable to you also, which include a more intense inspection, testing and certification qualification.
You also need to know about the crossover regulation within the building regs and other trades. But I would advise you to get your hands dirty first with someone that will show you the ropes and get some experience and a love for doing the work.
At the moment you are aimless going around doing unsupervised DIY and not learning very much. I doubt you are performing safe isolation and locking out procedures, you probably don't even have a voltage tester that conforms to GS38.
You very likely don't even understand how circuits work or check they are performing correctly before or after your interventions. That could lead to a dangerous situation
Using the correct test equipment and procedures, will prevent that.
When you deal with a service or trade work that is not only dangerous to the person undertaking but also is potentially dangerous to those that shall live in or nearby that location, so then getting someone with knowledge is the most sensible answer, is it not?
Yes but this thought is just a whim, hands dirty, get experience and learn. It can be a tough and rough trade to work in be prepared for that.
And the fact you have no knowledge of electrics, makes you foolish to start meddling with the unknown, don't want to sound harsh, but it is a harsh reality.
So you need experience, you need to enjoy it, you need education and you need time to acquire all this, or turning up at someones house on an evening when you have already done a days work and find they have no lighting and your scrambling around in loft spaces full of junk and floor voids full of shyte, will not seem all that appealing.
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Yeah, I doubt I would need any type of foundation course, I can take my shoes off if I get stuck counting. One of the the questions I wanted answering was actually about these courses. Will they get me qualified? In a legal sense, on paper. The course might not train me in anything and just give me a little certificate that allows me to do the trade, or they might turn me into the best electrician on the planet, but for some reason not be able to qualify someone legally.
Naturally, I have to speak to course providers before I start a course. Most providers offer courses up to level 3, and also further courses. As for crossovers, I should be able to at least get an insight into two other trades in a similar way.
This would be ideal, but also difficult, I will see how it goes.
To be fair, I've had to learn quite a bit since I bought this house. A tester is on my to buy list!
This is true for the most part, hence the thread I posted!
It definitely is the most sensibly answer, even if it doesn't answer the question, which can be frustrating.
I'm sure it is a rough trade, and I thank you for your concern. It may be a whim, I may find it isn't what I want to do, however, if it is something I do decide to go ahead with it, what I'm seeking is answers and practical advice to make the most effective use of my time.
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After the riots early 1980's the government started many training schemes, the one I went on was in Liverpool and they trained people to be mechanics, electricians etc. It was aimed at older people and very much hands on, it took 24 weeks and at that the trainees were considered semi-skilled, it was considered it would need two years working in the trade before the worker could be considered as a fully qualified tradesman, in that two years they were placed with firms able to support the worker giving them support which in essence means they worked with some one able to help them.
The drop out rate was far too high, they would complete the 24 weeks bit, but very few did the two years journeyman, and would try to pass themselves off as qualified well before that time. It caused a legacy of poor tradesmen where they had simply not got the technical background required, I am not saying they all failed, but a good percentage did. I have in my time worked with many of them. And in some ways I was one. Although my transfer from auto electrics to mains mean I had the technical knowledge like ohms law, I would go on a site and be told "your not allowed to do that" and I was forced to believe what I was told because I had never studied the regulations.
Much of what I was told was wrong, your only allowed to use one reel of cable in a final ring is a good example of a half truth, I had heard it said many times, but did not realise why, and so when I needed to use more cable I was stumped on how to go about it. Now since doing formal training I know if I use a thicker cable I can get around the problem. However at the time I was rather in the dark, because most of the time I was working on ELV stuff used on industrial machines, and I was repairing rather than designing systems the rules were not that much of a problem. However also saw results when people got it wrong.
Simple job, run a 80 meter cable in existing tray and fit new 32A socket, 4 mm² would take the load, I would have used 10 mm² but it was not my call, after fitting a shrink wrap machine was moved from another area of the factory to be plugged in, it did not work correctly, it was returned to original area it worked A1, clearly some problem with the socket, the problem was volt drop, 4 mm² was good for 30 meters but not 80 meters. So 27.5 volt drop instead or 11.5 volt drop, the guy was unlucky that the machine was so sensitive to volt drop, another machine and he would have got away with it, also if that machine had not worked else where in the factory he could have blamed the machine. However he had to remove the 4 mm² cable and fit 10 mm² cable so more work to correct than it would have taken to do the job, as well as cost of cable, he had the cost of his time, that is a lot of covering up, in the case in question it was an in house job, so it was covered up, and higher management never knew, however mistakes cost money.
It also is about who finds the error, and how well it is documented, similar thing happened to my son, an estate of what should have been 100 houses of the same design, house one wired by a fully qualified electrician, all testing done, and satisfied all passed. Simple now, semi-skilled guy set to copy what was done in house one, with the other 99. However part way through the build the builder decided to change from beams with knockout for plumbing and electrics, to a solid wood beam, this resulted in the cables being run 1/3 of the way into the room not permitted to drill beam at the ends, this in turn resulted in more cable being required, and the semi-skilled man was on third house before the electrician who was doing the testing found the error. Again expensive to correct, in fact not corrected, 25A MCB's were fitted instead.
Now the question is then what to do, and first time a house changes hands the EICR will likely highlight the error, as to if you could actually be forced to correct it I don't know? Not really a safety issue, however some one would have signed a form to say it complied with BS7671 which it did not. So 9 years after they were built, the owner could still take the builder to court, and in turn the builder would likely take the electrical firm to court. It will not happen as builder went to the wall. However it is so easy to make errors, nothing to do with danger, but still errors and not covered by insurance. Most sole traders are not limited companies, so it would come from their back pocket even after the guy has stopped trading.
It seems there were a few people looking for my son when he stopped trading, however he stopped due to marriage failure, sold house, and went to live in a narrow boat, so they simply could not find him, he was not hiding, it was just what happened, years latter he found they were looking for him, but he also had a second problem when he stopped trading. The firm he went to work for gave him a dispensation that he could complete jobs in process, but he had to agree to do no work after a set date relating to his old business. At the time he wanted a cards in job so he could find a new house, the narrow boat was a stop gap, so even if they had found him he could not have done the work. When he was sole trading he would boast about how much money he was making, however he would miss out that he started work 8 am and rarely home before 8 pm often 7 days a week, he never knew when he would get next job, he expected to have times with no work, lucky it did not happen, but it resulted in him hardly ever turning down a job.
So had you asked him while he was a sole trader he would have said how good it was, today he would say never again would he do that. And remember he did not stop because he failed, but because his wife left him, he found a new girl, and wanted a mortgage. He says he did not realise at the time the stress related to being a sole trader. He said he never ran out of work, however some jobs were 60 miles away, that's a silly distance to travel in North Wales.
The drop out rate was far too high, they would complete the 24 weeks bit, but very few did the two years journeyman, and would try to pass themselves off as qualified well before that time. It caused a legacy of poor tradesmen where they had simply not got the technical background required, I am not saying they all failed, but a good percentage did. I have in my time worked with many of them. And in some ways I was one. Although my transfer from auto electrics to mains mean I had the technical knowledge like ohms law, I would go on a site and be told "your not allowed to do that" and I was forced to believe what I was told because I had never studied the regulations.
Much of what I was told was wrong, your only allowed to use one reel of cable in a final ring is a good example of a half truth, I had heard it said many times, but did not realise why, and so when I needed to use more cable I was stumped on how to go about it. Now since doing formal training I know if I use a thicker cable I can get around the problem. However at the time I was rather in the dark, because most of the time I was working on ELV stuff used on industrial machines, and I was repairing rather than designing systems the rules were not that much of a problem. However also saw results when people got it wrong.
Simple job, run a 80 meter cable in existing tray and fit new 32A socket, 4 mm² would take the load, I would have used 10 mm² but it was not my call, after fitting a shrink wrap machine was moved from another area of the factory to be plugged in, it did not work correctly, it was returned to original area it worked A1, clearly some problem with the socket, the problem was volt drop, 4 mm² was good for 30 meters but not 80 meters. So 27.5 volt drop instead or 11.5 volt drop, the guy was unlucky that the machine was so sensitive to volt drop, another machine and he would have got away with it, also if that machine had not worked else where in the factory he could have blamed the machine. However he had to remove the 4 mm² cable and fit 10 mm² cable so more work to correct than it would have taken to do the job, as well as cost of cable, he had the cost of his time, that is a lot of covering up, in the case in question it was an in house job, so it was covered up, and higher management never knew, however mistakes cost money.
It also is about who finds the error, and how well it is documented, similar thing happened to my son, an estate of what should have been 100 houses of the same design, house one wired by a fully qualified electrician, all testing done, and satisfied all passed. Simple now, semi-skilled guy set to copy what was done in house one, with the other 99. However part way through the build the builder decided to change from beams with knockout for plumbing and electrics, to a solid wood beam, this resulted in the cables being run 1/3 of the way into the room not permitted to drill beam at the ends, this in turn resulted in more cable being required, and the semi-skilled man was on third house before the electrician who was doing the testing found the error. Again expensive to correct, in fact not corrected, 25A MCB's were fitted instead.
Now the question is then what to do, and first time a house changes hands the EICR will likely highlight the error, as to if you could actually be forced to correct it I don't know? Not really a safety issue, however some one would have signed a form to say it complied with BS7671 which it did not. So 9 years after they were built, the owner could still take the builder to court, and in turn the builder would likely take the electrical firm to court. It will not happen as builder went to the wall. However it is so easy to make errors, nothing to do with danger, but still errors and not covered by insurance. Most sole traders are not limited companies, so it would come from their back pocket even after the guy has stopped trading.
It seems there were a few people looking for my son when he stopped trading, however he stopped due to marriage failure, sold house, and went to live in a narrow boat, so they simply could not find him, he was not hiding, it was just what happened, years latter he found they were looking for him, but he also had a second problem when he stopped trading. The firm he went to work for gave him a dispensation that he could complete jobs in process, but he had to agree to do no work after a set date relating to his old business. At the time he wanted a cards in job so he could find a new house, the narrow boat was a stop gap, so even if they had found him he could not have done the work. When he was sole trading he would boast about how much money he was making, however he would miss out that he started work 8 am and rarely home before 8 pm often 7 days a week, he never knew when he would get next job, he expected to have times with no work, lucky it did not happen, but it resulted in him hardly ever turning down a job.
So had you asked him while he was a sole trader he would have said how good it was, today he would say never again would he do that. And remember he did not stop because he failed, but because his wife left him, he found a new girl, and wanted a mortgage. He says he did not realise at the time the stress related to being a sole trader. He said he never ran out of work, however some jobs were 60 miles away, that's a silly distance to travel in North Wales.
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What honesty! It's terrific to see such an honest thread and such good answers too.
This so reminds me of 2 situations years ago:
I bought an old house and gutted the services, put in some temporary electrics consisting of about 2m of old 7/0.044 from the cut out to a wooden board containing the meter, 15A metal clad MEM switched fuse and a 13A double socket. I'd also removed the cut out from the wall for the timber and damp guys to do their thing. The following day the meter reader arrived and promptly listed it as potential illegal use of electricity as the meter was not sealed. It took them six weeks to return to investigate and the sparks said he understood the reasoning behind my works, insisted I had to fit a bigger earthwire, which I was able to do there and then with some blue 6mm² single, and he sealed the meter but not the cut out.
18 months later I'd completed first fix, fuse boxes fitted but supplied from the temp socket and had a couple of circuits operational. I called in seeboard (as it was then) to get meter back in place etc, the inspector turned up to do my 'final inspection' who promptly told me he wasn't qualified to do any work but said I could move and wire the meter while he was checking the rest of the house, most of it was visual inspection and he filled his tick boxes nicely until he got to the earthing arrangements. I'd used some yellow 16(or possibly 25)mm² with occasional green plastic tape markings. He failed it, not because it was yellow but because his tick box asked for 10mm². During the discussion that followed it transpired he had been on a one day course to get his promotion from meter reader to inspector and he had no other electrical experience or qualification.
One of my neighbours took in a lodger when he left the army, his first 4 (or possibly6) weeks in civvy street was spent 'in camp' learning to be an electrician and passed out fully qualified with all the certificates including 15th edition & testing and a nice shiny tool kit in a leather 'doctors bag'. As he was now on the dole he spent some time helping me do my electrics, luckily all my buried cables were in conduit and I'd left plenty of slack, much of which ended up in bits in the bin, I certainly didn't allow him in the fuse boxes and he had absolutely no concept of 2 way switching wiring let alone 3 way of which there was a total of 7 in the house.
How does this relate to OP?
In my opinion the quick courses are frequently not appropriate, they are probably ok for someone who has a lot of practical experience or has been out of the industry for a while and needs to re-qualify, but for a newcomer nothing beats the mates or (proper) apprenticeship routes.
I have worked with a load of electricians in the meantime of varying degrees of competency and I don't have a problem with that as long as they stay inside their skill set.
This so reminds me of 2 situations years ago:
I bought an old house and gutted the services, put in some temporary electrics consisting of about 2m of old 7/0.044 from the cut out to a wooden board containing the meter, 15A metal clad MEM switched fuse and a 13A double socket. I'd also removed the cut out from the wall for the timber and damp guys to do their thing. The following day the meter reader arrived and promptly listed it as potential illegal use of electricity as the meter was not sealed. It took them six weeks to return to investigate and the sparks said he understood the reasoning behind my works, insisted I had to fit a bigger earthwire, which I was able to do there and then with some blue 6mm² single, and he sealed the meter but not the cut out.
18 months later I'd completed first fix, fuse boxes fitted but supplied from the temp socket and had a couple of circuits operational. I called in seeboard (as it was then) to get meter back in place etc, the inspector turned up to do my 'final inspection' who promptly told me he wasn't qualified to do any work but said I could move and wire the meter while he was checking the rest of the house, most of it was visual inspection and he filled his tick boxes nicely until he got to the earthing arrangements. I'd used some yellow 16(or possibly 25)mm² with occasional green plastic tape markings. He failed it, not because it was yellow but because his tick box asked for 10mm². During the discussion that followed it transpired he had been on a one day course to get his promotion from meter reader to inspector and he had no other electrical experience or qualification.
One of my neighbours took in a lodger when he left the army, his first 4 (or possibly6) weeks in civvy street was spent 'in camp' learning to be an electrician and passed out fully qualified with all the certificates including 15th edition & testing and a nice shiny tool kit in a leather 'doctors bag'. As he was now on the dole he spent some time helping me do my electrics, luckily all my buried cables were in conduit and I'd left plenty of slack, much of which ended up in bits in the bin, I certainly didn't allow him in the fuse boxes and he had absolutely no concept of 2 way switching wiring let alone 3 way of which there was a total of 7 in the house.
How does this relate to OP?
In my opinion the quick courses are frequently not appropriate, they are probably ok for someone who has a lot of practical experience or has been out of the industry for a while and needs to re-qualify, but for a newcomer nothing beats the mates or (proper) apprenticeship routes.
I have worked with a load of electricians in the meantime of varying degrees of competency and I don't have a problem with that as long as they stay inside their skill set.
Thanks for the reply.
I should make my position clear on the work I wish to carry out. Fittings, such as lights, switches, plug sockets, appliances (hobs, ovens etc), and any tidying up of wires. I'm not looking to crack a course then start rewiring high rise flats. I'm looking for a few hours work here and there whilst on leave.
Then it will not be worth your while.
Apart from the question of how people will find you so that you will get such limited work, and if they do, the next time they want you or something has gone wrong with what you've done - you're not on leave.
Then there is the equipment necessary even for "little jobs" like these.
Also there is the "little job" which leads to more complicated investigation which you cannot do.
It's five o'clock in the Winter and your work has caused the RCD to trip. It may not be your fault but you have to find the cause or, perhaps, should have known it would happen.
You will need insurance when working in customers' properties; it's not like doing things for family and friends.
Would you entertain a few hours work on people's gas installations? It'll likely only be soldering a few water pipes - simple. Why not?
If you want odd jobs then I think you would be better finding something that really is as uninvolved as you think electrics are and something which, if unexpectedly delayed, can just be left incomplete until tomorrow and something which does not involve possible injury to people and fire in their property.
I think your best bet could be to find a local electrical company and get some casual work with them if they can cope with your time constraints.
You will establish your capabilities very quickly and gain valuable experience as a mate but be prepared to be the gofa.
and ultimately this is what it comes down to. ^^^^^^
Most training providers will, issue certificates. if it is C&G course you will receive a certificate if you complete and pass the course/exams.
With regards to if they make you legal to perform electrical work, is another question.
As there is no legal requirement to be qualified to act as an electrician.
Yet qualification will hopefully improve your knowledge and be a step towards progression.
Well that is up to you, if you want to learn you will! If you are just there for the ride and a piece of paper at the end, then do not expect to be successful in your quest.
If/when you start to train, then you will became more aware what is required to become a qualified, skilled electrician, you will also became aware of what legal responsibilities you have. Just do not take a Mickey Mouse, fast track approach to this.
Right now, if you've got half-decent woodworking skills, you could exploit the current fashion for upcycled/shabby-chic stuff and (good time of year) start making garden furniture, planters etc from old pallets, reclaimed scaffold boards, that sort of thing.
Do you know what, gardening would be alright but then I wouldn't have an excuse to put doing my garden off for another year
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Part time does not work, once you start a job, it needs finishing, may a time I have instead of finishing at 5:30 pm I have still been there at 11:30 pm. You can't walk off and leave a house uninhabitable, without finding alternative accommodation for the occupants. No power means uninhabitable. OK if dish washer not working, but you must have lights, and fridge/freezer can't be left off until morning.
I remember a co-worker who had a baby at home, and a wife who worked in the local pub, so he wanted to be home for 6 pm so his wife could go out, a job went wrong, and at 5 pm he phoned boss asking for help, boss said I can be there for 6:30 pm I will take over then, you will have to carry on until I get there. However he decided to leave, and go home anyway, the panel was found open, and live, he was sacked for gross industrial misconduct. And rightly so. The only way you can leave a job without making safe is when your involved in an accident, when your admitted to A&E that is considered as a reasonable excuse.
I remember a co-worker who had a baby at home, and a wife who worked in the local pub, so he wanted to be home for 6 pm so his wife could go out, a job went wrong, and at 5 pm he phoned boss asking for help, boss said I can be there for 6:30 pm I will take over then, you will have to carry on until I get there. However he decided to leave, and go home anyway, the panel was found open, and live, he was sacked for gross industrial misconduct. And rightly so. The only way you can leave a job without making safe is when your involved in an accident, when your admitted to A&E that is considered as a reasonable excuse.
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