quoting and getting the job

[17thman]

hi.

Not sure if you are aware but have started by own business recently. I am picking up work and it is going o.k but i could do with more and I am coming across a common situation. People want/need a cu changing where there is no DP switch after the meter. I am telling them that they will need to get/pay for the dno to fit one so that the cu change can be carried out. upon chasing up the work, the customers are telling me that they found an electrician who didn't stipulate that and just pulled the service fuse or even worked on the live tales. Secondly where main earthing concuctor is inadequate on a tns system. I am telling them to get dno to sweat on or fit/clamp correctly the correct size earth, but again on chase up they find sparkies who clamped with 951 earth tag and therefore won the other associated jobs.

The customers clam up when ioi ask the name of the electrician.

Any advice or do i just haver to put up with it. How many sparkies here have just pulled the service fuse.Its so tempting but i am determined not to get into bad/illegal practice.

 

[mattysupra]

is it possible for you to arrange this upon them accepting your quote and taken a deposit for you to start work?

In other words, you telling them that you will do the messing around for them so the work can be carried out correct, instead of a cowboy?

 

[17thman]

cheers matty, i could get copy of electricity bill and do it for them, yes. The issue is also that if the dno want £120.00 to fit the isolator or they won't do the earth on the tns and will only suggest changing to a pme supply which would cost as well. That adds to the overall cost as apposed to the cowboys. But i will try doing that for them, thanks

 

[electronicsuk]

Have you asked the local DNO their views on removal of the service fuse? You may find that they aren't particularly concerned. Not an issue for me as I don't do domestic work, but it sounds like you're shooting yourself in the foot by insisting on having a cutout fitted. As you'll never be able to get rid of those who are willing to pull the fuse, it seems like your choices are to work harder at securing the work and convincing your customers that the cheaper option is not always the best, or you pull the fuse anyway.

 

[comms]

So call the dno yourself, tell them that you need to remove the service fuse to change the cu for safety & that the cu is being changed to bring the property upto current standards, the seal will need replacing after you've completed your work.

Never had a problem to date, they just make a note on the customers file that seal needs replacing at next oppotunity.

As for the MEC & termination (+ undersized tails) all I do is leave both as they are at the service hed end, but on the consumers side terminate the MEC into a MET (located on the meter backboard. The line & neutral tails I put into a 100a DP switch. Then I can run in to the cu my 16 & 25mm tails.
Always leave a letter stating that the tails need upgrading & this can only be done by DNO & give the contact number.

Reinsert service fuse upon completion of cu change & use a seal with crimp that can be purchased from ebay (amongst other places)

Or just wait for the seal fairy to visit

 

[bongos]

17thman I can appreciate your situation.

I am currently getting work experience with two different sparks and they both cut the seals on the service fuse and pull it for CU changes. Both make sure that the customer is aware of why it has been done and explain the situation with the DNO, much the same as Comms suggests.

From what I have seen of their work neither are cowboys but otherwise they say they could be waiting around forever for DNO's to turn up. They know it's not really the 'proper' way to do things but by them adding another £XXX for the DNO to fit an isolator they admit that many a job would be lost.

 

[Cremeegg]

You are looking for the best of both worlds and need to explain this to the customer. Some will appreciate this and choose you others will go on price. Isolators are nice but not necessary when it's easy enough to pull the main fuse. Some DNO's will let certain scheme members pull fuses.

Business is business; dog eat dog; if you feel competent in pulling fuses then do so and seal them afterwards and tell everybody. Although technically illegal I dont know of anybody who has been prosecuted. Would the DNO prefer that you worked with live tails?

 

[AndrewSchofield]

I am not an electrician and reading through the posts on this thread i tend to get lost with some of the abbreviations. I'd just like to make it known that i looked in to having a DP switch installed between my meter and CU this year (some of you may have seen my posts), after going around the houses to find the correct person to speak to they wrote to me to inform me that i should just contact an electrician to install the switch and it wasn't something they would do for me.

I assume then from reading this thread that my electric company are basically advised me to get an electrician to fit the swtich which would require said electrician to remove the main fuse? So as someone said above, it would seem it isn't something they are overly bothered about?

 

[17thman]

thanks for the input guys.

I contacted my dno and they did not seem bothered. I contacted another who said that they would not fit a dp switch and A house i did a while back said that would do the dp switch for free but that they would not resize the mec on a tns and i would have to apply for a pme at a cost of £154.00. It is really varied. so what i think going to do is to contact the dno on the customers behalf and tell them what i am doing and back it up with an emails confirming they said that it was ok, as has been suggested.

 

[ncoups]

Reinsert service fuse upon completion of cu change & use a seal with crimp that can be purchased from ebay (amongst other places)

Have you got link to that? Me and my boss could do with one of those babys
cheers

 

[jpdw]

thanks for the input guys.

I contacted my dno and they did not seem bothered. I contacted another who said that they would not fit a dp switch and A house i did a while back said that would do the dp switch for free but that they would not resize the mec on a tns and i would have to apply for a pme at a cost of £154.00. It is really varied. so what i think going to do is to contact the dno on the customers behalf and tell them what i am doing and back it up with an emails confirming they said that it was ok, as has been suggested.

I'm not an electrician so this is a customer's POV: How about giving the option? If the customer wants the dp fitted (after you explain the advantages of it vs the disadvantages of not) then can you offer the 'service' of co-ordinating it for the customer?

[I'm assuming that you could arrange such a thing without being the householder?]

It wouldn't be unreasonable to add a very small handling percentage (5%-10% maybe?) ... don't be too greedy or the customer will get naffed off, but keep it 'small enough to be negligable' then the customer will think you're a nice guy that provides a good service... and they will tell their friends they know a great sparky etc,.
[just like the plumber we've had to several jobs over 8 years & 2 homes.... who's also now done work for several friends etc]

I guess this would depend on the type of customer though. But if they're asking for a quote then they do at least want a pro to do the work which is a good start.

 

[Click-Sure]

Dont really approve of DP isolators unless there is more than one CU (excluding submain-type setups).

A DP isolator fitted yesterday will always be older than a CU's main switch fitted today, whilst of more robust design now, I'm sure the people fitting wood/bakelite Wylex Standards at one time thought they'd last forever too.

The real cowboys are the ones that treat an old RCD or worse, VO-ELCB as a DP isolator (seen it twice on periodics)

 

[hairyben]

Been changing CU's for 15 years without REC "assistance" and never heard a peep.

It's a disputable area, if the REC really didn't want their equipment "interfered" with they'd make provision for such work with far more ease and FOC too. As it stands they state their legal position in the "belief" that everyone will abide by it, and nobody asks why millions of houses are missing their seals.

As for earthing upgrades on CU changes, with a large number of older propertys earthed via a clamp on the sheaf, provided readings are fine I change the CU and recommend a earth upgrade on the cert. I'm satisfied the installation is safe as it stands, and "liability" is passed on. Again, it'd be nice to do it by the book, if the REC didn't make things so difficult (sometimes demanding £2K+ worth of new supply)

(And besides, there's a school of thought that a lead sheath TNS earth is more desirable than TNCS. Certainally the loss of any single conducter cannot, in itself, create a dangerous situation in the way losing a PNE can)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's a disputable area, if the REC really didn't want their equipment "interfered" with they'd make provision for such work with far more ease and FOC too. As it stands they state their legal position in the "belief" that everyone will abide by it, and nobody asks why millions of houses are missing their seals.

The seals, the provisions in the ESQCR, their publicly stated policies, are all there for CTA purposes for when something goes wrong.

 

[First-time-buyer]

If you concerned about the seal, we use to get hold of the metal seals, pull them round so that the clamp was against the hole and cut them in the middle.

This enables you to refit the fuse, and poke either end of the seal back in the holes, therefore ensuring it looks like the seal has not been touched.

Customer knows nothing about it.

I see it as, aslong as you dont start breaking the seal to the meter, no dramas we be brought to you.

I was not the boss, i was the worker, the producer.....