re-render job

[Makeitstop]

Thanks Roughcaster.

Yes, I thought it sounded like good practise to make ALL brickwork solid BEFORE and render is applied.

What I don't like is the fact that this brick lintel is actually not properly attached to the course of bricks above it, there is a VERY clear break in the mortar joint. The whole lintel has been stiffened by use of wooden wedges, which have been driven into the brick lntel to expand it somewhat. To me, that looks like a quick fix, and one which is not going to ensure the render stays put over time.

Surely, a loose substrate will cause cracking won't it.???

I'll be having a word with him tomorrow, as he's supposed to be coming to get the scratch coat on.....ha.

He's going to be in for a shock I reckon.

Wooden wedges wont last for long, unless as Joe says it's just to hold it before filling etc. Ask him about it anyway, just to let him know you're aware of it. Let us know how you get on.

I'll deffo be asking him about it, and await the response with interest.

Will also take a few pics of it, and will try to post them up tomorrow.

Thanks all.

 

[Makeitstop]

Hi all.

Well, turned up at the house this morning and looked at the lintel again.
I decided to rake out the joints a little, to create a little more room to get some good mortar in. When the builder arrived, I asked him what he intended doing with it and asked whether he was going to force some fresh mortar into it to stiffen the whole lot up. He took one look at it and said, yes, I'll sort that, but seemed a surprised I'd asked him. Still, it's done now and it looks far better. The two main walls have been scratch coated and it's taking some shape, so hopefully, things will work out well.

This was it as it was before raking out. Doesn't look too sturdy does it.

View media item 34933

 

[NickB_99]

Still, it's done now and it looks far better. The two main walls have been scratch coated and it's taking some shape, so hopefully, things will work out well.

Is the lintel bead straight?
Looks a bit low on the right hand side - or is it just the angle the pic was taken on?

 

[Makeitstop]

Still, it's done now and it looks far better. The two main walls have been scratch coated and it's taking some shape, so hopefully, things will work out well.

Is the lintel bead straight?
Looks a bit low on the right hand side - or is it just the angle the pic was taken on?

They were only fixed loosely, and were placed more accurately once the scratch coat went on.

The one thing I have noticed going back there today to see how it's all gone off, is that the scratch coat doesn't appear very strong. The mix can be crumbled by finger pressure. To me, that seems a bit weak to say the least, especially when the next coat has to be weaker.

Views on that one???

 

[roy c]

It looks like he is leaving them wooden wedges in. If he does not "dry-pack" the joints and put s/s mesh over it, it wont be long before the cracks appear!!!
I also think that there should of been an acrow underneath to jack it back up to its original position before doing anything...

 

[Makeitstop]

It looks like he is leaving them wooden wedges in. If he does not "dry-pack" the joints and put s/s mesh over it, it wont be long before the cracks appear!!!
I also think that there should of been an acrow underneath to jack it back up to its original position before doing anything...

I wondered on the acrow also, but thought it may not allow mortar into the joint to bond it up (not that I know owt anyway, but it seemed like common sense) I guess meshing it would help, but I can't see him doing that.

I have to say though, if I was someone doing this sort of job, I'd have gone about certain bits differently, but perhaps I'd be too fussy and would take too long over getting jobs done to be profitable.

Any views on the rather soft feeling scratch coat.???

If you stick a key into it, shouldn't it offer some really good resistance.?

 

[jrplastering]

if he only did the scratch today mate itt still be fairly green mate and wnt have cured to its maxumim strenght, what colour is it i mean does it look really sandy yellow colour or is it a nice deep green colour??

just out of interest and dnt take this the wrong way how would you have reacted if he had hackd off then said right the original estimate will go up now as we have come accross said problem and it needs sorting first.
as i said dnt take this the wrong way im just asking more to answer a question to my self really

 

[Makeitstop]

if he only did the scratch today mate itt still be fairly green mate and wnt have cured to its maxumim strenght, what colour is it i mean does it look really sandy yellow colour or is it a nice deep green colour??

just out of interest and dnt take this the wrong way how would you have reacted if he had hackd off then said right the original estimate will go up now as we have come accross said problem and it needs sorting first.
as i said dnt take this the wrong way im just asking more to answer a question to my self really

Thanks for the reply JR.

The scratch was done yesterday, so I checked it today around 5pm to see how it was looking. It has mainly gone off ok, but there is a patch which stil looks a bit moist, but that may be from earlier today, as it was raining this morning here. The areas I checked were where it had gone off, and it did feel a bit soft to me (no expert though). I'd have thought that the scratch was supposed to be a pretty hard mix, and the top woud be a bit more sandy (but still not soft) He SBR'd the brickwork first, after wetting it slightly. He got the scratch on pretty soon after the SBR had been done, and it was looking ok (as it well may be to be fair).

I'm just a bit surprised at how soft it is where it does appear fully dry.

As for what I'd think if he upped the price once old stuff was removed, well, I'd not be too impressed to be truthful, as he can see the age of the house and should make 'some' allowances for what it might show up. There was nothing glaringly bad about it, although the brick lintel was ****e. I didn't see it him hack off the old, so don't know whether he was a bit heavy handed with doing it, which could I guess cuase the loosening of the lintel bricks.

I just hope this scratch coat will be strong enough. What can we expect if it isn't.???

 

[jrplastering]

to be fair if he had priced in for all the problems that "could" happen then he would never have got the job weve had it before where as we took the render off the brickwork cam off aswell and the whole wall had to be rebuilt, now i could never have known this would have happened, the tradesman cannot see through the render so never knows fully what will happen (an educated guess yes but never fully know)
usually i price hack offs on a day rate as you dnt know how long it will take off andf what problems you will come across then put a price on the reinstatement of materials.

the rain last night could have weakend the scratch a bit if it wassnt covered he might have to stabilize the scratch beofre he tops it off just to try and sure it up a bit, what colour is it this will give me a clue as to how strong the scratch is.
or better still a picture
out you go again haha

 

[Makeitstop]

Ta again for the reply, really appreciate it.

Will get piccies tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see what others say about it.

 

[joe-90]

He should have taken the soldiers out and put a concrete lintel in. Those bricks are sitting on a plastic window. Crazy man. Come on guys - surely you can see that?

 

[Makeitstop]

Well in fact it was me that fitted the windows, and one of the upstairs windows (the one right above this one in fact) had the same issue, and I changed the bricks for a concrete lintel. As it had no load to bare, I thought a 3" X 4" would do nicely, so removed a few of the bricks and slapped one in, and then put bricks back and everything was properly solid.

I didn't see this issue with the one in question until the morning he was supposed to be coming to do the scratch coat, because it still had a bit of old render to remove, which he'd obviously done late the night before. Only then did I notice that they were looking well loose. This is when I scraped the mortar out and asked him his intentions on it.

As we know, too many builders appear to be thinking speed first, quality of work second. Whether this guy is one of those I don't know, but I hope not entirely.

My thinking on it (with very little building knowledge but a bit of common sense) was that any movement underneath the render would be likely to cause cracking, and maybe real problems with the render in time.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

I reckon I might be a builders worst nightmare if they were doing work on my place. I'd be all over everything to make sure it was right.

 

[roy c]

He should have taken the soldiers out and put a concrete lintel in. Those bricks are sitting on a plastic window. Crazy man. Come on guys - surely you can see that?

Not necessary so joe, those brick soldiers are on the outside skin, so I would imagine that inside behind them would be a wooden lintol. Probably rotten if water has been getting in through the render over the years....

 

[joe-90]

I'm pretty sure that FENSA insist on a lintel with plastic windows. You can also see that the soldiers have dropped and are sitting on the plastic window.

 

[Makeitstop]

As Roy-C says, the bricks are on the outer skin only and yes it does have a wooden lintel on the inner skin, but it is still very solid and is not rotten at all. I'm not entirely convinced what "fensa" actually does anyway, as some of the fitting I've seen done by so called registered company fitters has been nothing short of shocking.

Anyway, these are some pics of the work done so far. The paler patch of scratched render is where a door was bricked up months ago. It's also pretty clear to see where part of the scratch coat was done earlier today, around the window with the dodgy brick lintel.

How does this look.???

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