Reasons to Remain.

[Himaginn]

It's a funny thing that some anti-EU campaigners like to pretend that the EU was set up as a mighty empire by force of conquest, and held down by massive armies, like the Soviet Union and its satellites. This is completely wrong. It is obviously a dishonest debating trick.

No it wasn't created that way. The evolution of the future European federal superstate is being carried out much more steathily. But just because it started out differently from the Soviet Union doesn't mean that it can't or won't become something very much like it further down the track.

Quite the reverse, it was initiated by men who had lived through the greatest and most destructive war the world has ever seen. The older of them had also lived through the second greatest war the world has ever seen. Their greatest goal was to make a recurrence impossible.

And that may be so as well, but it doesn't mean that the concept cannot be hijacked by those with rather different motives and the whole project perverted into something else.

You seem to have been watching a few too many James Bond films. Do you really think that the EU is akin to something like Le Chifre, or SMERSH or SPECTRE or Ernst Blofeld? Get a grip! You know James Bond will be along in a mo' to rescue us, Hey Moneypenny?
Watch out for that poisoned drink! You never know who the agents of EU are!

 

[JohnD]

it started out differently from the Soviet Union doesn't mean

That is a very foolish argument. You might just as well say that the Women's Institute might develop into a fascist dictatorship, or the government of the United States (currently looking a bit more likely), or that Lichtenstein might one day start incarcerating Methodists in concentration camps.

 

[Slogger]

Sovereignty is not vague in any way shape or form ,The OP has a hidden agenda me thinks

 

[jockscott]

It's true there have been questions about your hero, the anti-EU Farage and his expenses.

But the moat-cleaning, duckponds and fancy dog-kennels were claimed by UK MPs. Does that mean we should all leave the UK?

You make no sense.

I mentioned Euro MP's and you start going on about our own MP's Which part of Euro MP is it your failing to understand ?? (or are you just trying to cloud the issue? )

 

[JohnD]

Are you seriously not aware that your anti-EU campaigner Farage is an MEP?

And that we had a dreadful, long-lasting scandal of UK MPs troughsnouting their expenses? For which some (not enough) ended up in prison? Or are you willing to overlook crooks as long as it is only the UK taxpayer they defraud?

 

[jockscott]

Are you seriously not aware that your anti-EU campaigner Farage is an MEP?

And that we had a dreadful, long-lasting scandal of UK MPs troughsnouting their expenses? For which some (not enough) ended up in prison? Or are you willing to overlook crooks as long as it is only the UK taxpayer they defraud?

I do remember the expenses scandals. As I remember it wasn't just Tory MP's with their snouts in the trough either. I'm also fully aware that Farage is an MEP,, Probably one of the few MEP's actively trying to talk himself out of a lucrative job. (that might be lost on you though)

 

[JohnD]

the moat-cleaning, duckponds and fancy dog-kennels were claimed by UK MPs. Does that mean we should all leave the UK?

 

[jockscott]

Your repeating yourself JohnD, Just like the stuck record that you are (or do you have early onset alzheimers,,, or perhaps just alzheimers??)

 

[fender]

the moat-cleaning, duckponds and fancy dog-kennels were claimed by UK MPs. Does that mean we should all leave the UK?

No,

It means we should never trust MP's........

 

[JohnD]

Well I know that. But Jock seems very selective in choosing to moan about one set of crooks but not the other. And he can't think of a reason why.

 

[PBC_1966]

That is a very foolish argument. You might just as well say that the Women's Institute might develop into a fascist dictatorship {.....}

But it doesn't show any of the signs of doing so. The EU, on the other hand, already has quite a few of the mechanisms in place and is showing many signs of becoming an eventual EUSSR.

 

[JohnD]

Rubbish.

Let's see your examples.

Where are the political prisoners being kept? Has the editor of the anti-EU Daily Mail been arrested? Or the anti-EU Sun closed down?

This constant barrage of false propaganda by anti-EU activists is tedious, especially when they like to repeat the same lies again and again.

It's a funny thing that some anti-EU campaigners like to pretend that the EU was set up as a mighty empire by force of conquest, and held down by massive armies, like the Soviet Union and its satellites. This is completely wrong. It is obviously a dishonest debating trick.

One of the Trolls tried it earlier, but was unable to provide examples to match the Soviet forced collectivisation of farms, the man-made famine in Ukraine, the extermination of a generation of educated Poles, or the archipelago of gulags.

These extravagant and untrue allegations by anti-EU campaigners convince no-one.

Quite the reverse, it was initiated by men who had lived through the greatest and most destructive war the world has ever seen. The older of them had also lived through the second greatest war the world has ever seen. Their greatest goal was to make a recurrence impossible.

View media item 3017

 

[jockscott]

This constant barrage of false propaganda by anti-EU activists is tedious, especially when they like to repeat the same lies again and again.

Not forgetting the constant barrage of false propaganda by Pro EU activists.

 

[JohnD]

you've forgotten to quote your examples.

Like these
//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/t...-whose-in-control.453931/page-12#post-3602935