Registered 3rd-party certifiers

[ban-all-sheds]

The new version of "Approved Document P" which appeared in April 2013 introduced the concept of 'third party certification'- but no such scheme (for 'third party certifiers) has yet appeared - and probably never will.

To everyone's knowledge, although this is an option on paper, in practice there simply are no registered 3rd-party certifiers.

It seems that we are behind the times. Listed here are 2 organisations who run such schemes, NAPIT & Stroma.

The Stroma site seems to be lacking anything as useful as a 'find a member' search, but I tried NAPIT's site, and looked for ones in London, and it found 6.

Tried a few other locations - coverage seems a bit patchy, e.g. 10 in Birmingham, 5 in Leeds, but only 1 in Manchester, 1 in Liverpool & 1 in Newcastle.

 

[JohnW2]

The new version of "Approved Document P" which appeared in April 2013 introduced the concept of 'third party certification'- but no such scheme (for 'third party certifiers) has yet appeared - and probably never will.

To everyone's knowledge, although this is an option on paper, in practice there simply are no registered 3rd-party certifiers.

It seems that we are behind the times. Listed here are 2 organisations who run such schemes, NAPIT & Stroma.

Thanks. Very interesting. Do I take it that you have satisfied yourself that a "NAPIT electrical certifier" is, indeed, the same as what we understand by the hypothesised "third party certifier"?

Have you found any indication of what is required to become a "NAPIT electrical certifier" - or, indeed, what any such people are likely to charge for their 'certifying' services?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do I take it that you have satisfied yourself that a "NAPIT electrical certifier" is, indeed, the same as what we understand by the hypothesised "third party certifier"?

You may.

Electrical Certifier

If you are carrying out electrical work in your home as part of a DIY project, or are having electrical work carried out by an unregistered installer, which Part P of the Building Regulations states is notifiable (e.g. installing a new circuit or consumer unit) an Electrical Certifier can inspect, test and certificate this work in place of Building Control. Using a NAPIT Electrical Certifier gives you access to technical expertise that would not be available through Building Control and will ensure that electrical work is safe and compliant. This service is only available if the Certifier can be involved from the start of the project as inspection is needed throughout the installation. Please note that Electrical Certifiers are authorised to work in England only.

Have you found any indication of what is required to become a "NAPIT electrical certifier" - or, indeed, what any such people are likely to charge for their 'certifying' services?

No, because I haven't looked.

 

[JohnW2]

Do I take it that you have satisfied yourself that a "NAPIT electrical certifier" is, indeed, the same as what we understand by the hypothesised "third party certifier"?

You may. ....

Thanks.

Have you found any indication of what is required to become a "NAPIT electrical certifier" - or, indeed, what any such people are likely to charge for their 'certifying' services?

No, because I haven't looked.

Fair enough. I suppose that the answer to the first question doesn't really matter to the likes of you and I (except as a matter of interest), but the viability of the whole concept obviously depends upon the relative costs of 'third party certification' and conventional LABC notification. Of course, from the DIYer's viewpoint, the important thing for them to realise that either process has to be initiated before any work is undertaken - so the "do the work and then get an electrician to check it out" approach is still a no-no.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Whilst we have all complained about the (average) cost of notification, if inspection throughout the work is required, as it states, then I can't see that anyone would want to do it for less.

Instruction, at least one more visit and then testing and certification.

Depending on the work being done, it may make the fee more variable than the LA flat rate, I suppose.

 

[JohnW2]

Whilst we have all complained about the (average) cost of notification, if inspection throughout the work is required, as it states, then I can't see that anyone would want to do it for less. Instruction, at least one more visit and then testing and certification. Depending on the work being done, it may make the fee more variable than the LA flat rate, I suppose.

I largely agree with all that. Don't forget, however, that it's presumably only relevant in relation to notifiable work.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Don't forget, however, that it's presumably only relevant in relation to notifiable work.

Do you mean such 'third party work' will only occur with Replacing CUs, Fitting Showers etc. and a New Circuit or that there will be work associated with, for example, an extra socket and so will be cheaper?

 

[JohnW2]

NAPIT turns up only two "electrical certifiers" for my postcode, neither of them particularly close. I'm rather interested to see that the list of services offered by one of them is given (in its totality) as:

Call Systems & Datacomms
Energy Management Systems
Commercial Installations
Fire, Security, Emergency Lighting, CCTV
Industrial Control Systems
Periodic Inspection Reporting
Industrial Installations

They appear not to do any domestic work, other than, perhaps, "PIRs"!

I think that an anonymised 'general enquiry' by e-mail to one or both of them may be in order

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Don't forget, however, that it's presumably only relevant in relation to notifiable work.

Do you mean such 'third party work' will only occur with Replacing CUs, Fitting Showers etc. and a New Circuit ...

Yes - and that, other than the extent to which testing may involve some other parts of the installation, the 'certifier' would not need to look at any other work that had been undertaken.

...or that there will be work associated with, for example, an extra socket and so will be cheaper?

I'm not sure I understand what you'r saying - an extra socket (on an existing circuit) would obviously not be notifiable. So, as above, if the certifier were involved in relation to some notifiable work (say, a new circuit or shower), even if one had also installed lots of extra sockets (on existing circuits) and/or extended existing circuits all over the place, the certifier would presumably not need to look at any of that - only the one new circuit or shower.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Don't forget, however, that it's presumably only relevant in relation to notifiable work.

Do you mean such 'third party work' will only occur with Replacing CUs, Fitting Showers etc. and a New Circuit ...

Yes - and that, other than the extent to which testing may involve some other parts of the installation, the 'certifier' would not need to look at any other work that had been undertaken.

I don't understand the point you are making.
For a new circuit or installation of a shower the certifier would need to instruct the DIYer where to run the circuit and place the accessories and appliance, revisit to see that it was all done as instructed and then test and certify, which would involve some disconnection and refitting.
What other work would there be?

...or that there will be work associated with, for example, an extra socket and so will be cheaper?

I'm not sure I understand what you'r saying - an extra socket (on an existing circuit) would obviously not be notifiable.

No but it should be tested and a DIYer may ask for this.

So, as above, if the certifier were involved in relation to some notifiable work (say, a new circuit or shower), even if one had also installed lots of extra sockets (on existing circuits) and/or extended existing circuits all over the place, the certifier would presumably not need to look at any of that - only the one new circuit or shower.

He may be asked to do that.
Should he say that that is not necessary because it is not notifiable?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes - and that, other than the extent to which testing may involve some other parts of the installation, the 'certifier' would not need to look at any other work that had been undertaken.

I don't understand the point you are making. ... For a new circuit or installation of a shower the certifier would need to instruct the DIYer where to run the circuit and place the accessories and appliance, revisit to see that it was all done as instructed and then test and certify, which would involve some disconnection and refitting. ... What other work would there be?

I thought I went on to explain that. I agree that all you say would be necessary in relation to the shower circuit. However, as I said before, if the installation of the shower (and maybe one or two other notifiable things) were part of a much more major project (maybe even something approaching a 're-wire') undertaken by the DIYer, involving lots of other non-notifiable things (e.g. extensive additions and modifications to existing circuits), then none of thos non-notifiable bits would be "any business" of the electrician who was there to "third party certify" the notifiable bits of work - unless, as you say, the DIYer actually asked the electrician to inspect/test those non-notifiable bits - presumably for a price!

Kind Regards, John