Renault master indicator problem

[camerart]

Hi, Renault master 120DCI 2500 Diesel 2004.

While driving, the left indicator started on it's own, then it switched off, then right, and back to left, where it has stuck on.

When it is flashing or emergency flashers are on, the rear lights dim slightly in time with the indicator, with ignition on or off.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

If it might be an earthing problem, where do I start? I have a multi-meter.

Camerart.

 

[Peter.N.]

Sounds like an Ecu problem if it did this purely spontainiously, you could try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, it may reset its self.

The rear lights dimming slightly is fairly normal, it could indicate a slightly high resistance earth but that in itself wouldn't cause the problem.

Peter

 

[camerart]

Sounds like an Ecu problem if it did this purely spontainiously, you could try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, it may reset its self.

The rear lights dimming slightly is fairly normal, it could indicate a slightly high resistance earth but that in itself wouldn't cause the problem.

Peter

Hi Peter, Happy new year

I tried disconnecting the battery for a while, but no difference.

I stripped down the indicator stalk,and cleaned all of the contacts, no good.

With the indicator stalk plug disconnected, the indicator stops (Ignition on). Does this tell us anything?

I'm now trying to find the indicator relay. I can hear it ticking, and have removed all of the dashboard panels, but can't see it. Can you tell me how to find it please?

Camerart.

 

[Spark123]

In the absence of a wiring diagram I'd try a new stalk.
With a diagram I'd bell the old one out with a multimeter.
I'm not sure the wiring will go to the ECU, that is generally for the engine controls. I have seen on some vehicles the wiring go back to a central control module tho.

 

[camerart]

In the absence of a wiring diagram I'd try a new stalk.
With a diagram I'd bell the old one out with a multimeter.
I'm not sure the wiring will go to the ECU, that is generally for the engine controls. I have seen on some vehicles the wiring go back to a central control module tho.

Hi spark,

The absence of a wiring diagram is a bind!

Before replacing the Stalk I tried a multimeter on it, and I'm fairly sure it switched right/left cleanly.

I've now found the indicator relay, inside the speedo panel. I'm just going to investigate. (How much is a new one )

I also found that with the speedo panel removed there is no indicator, and with ign off, the emergency flashers still work, silently.

Camerart. View media item 87566 View media item 87567 View media item 87568

 

[camerart]

Here is the Speedo panel, with the indicator relay inside (I'm fairly sure)

I'm trying to get it apart. Do I pull the needles off first? It looks likely, but I want to be careful. View media item 87578 View media item 87579
Camerart.

 

[Spark123]

I very much doubt your flasher relay will be in the instrument binnacle, it is more likely just a speaker which makes a clicking noise to alert you that the indicators are operating.
I'm still erring towards it being an issue with the stalk as when you unplug it the problem goes away.

 

[camerart]

I very much doubt your flasher relay will be in the instrument binnacle, it is more likely just a speaker which makes a clicking noise to alert you that the indicators are operating.
I'm still erring towards it being an issue with the stalk as when you unplug it the problem goes away.

I also have my doubts, there's not enough room. There is a speaker. (I haven't touched it yet ) The indicator also stops when I disconnect the panel.

I have a thought! I connected a tow bar socket many years ago. It's not in good condition, could this affect it?

If you still suspect the stalk, is there a way to re-check it, to make sure?

Camerart

 

[Belle427]

Examine the connections to the rear light clusters first as its usually bad earths that cause this type of problem.

 

[Burnerman]

I'd sure like to know the outcome of this one.....
Couple of points though......if the rear lamps dim when the indicators are on, there's certainly an earth return that isn't as good as it should be.
Also, tow bar wiring is the worst thing on the planet for providing obscure electrical issues. I'd certainly check that and remove it if its not required.
I wonder if this van has Can bus?
John

 

[camerart]

I've just had the rear light clusters off, cleaned all contacts/bulbs.

Removed the tow bar electronics.

Checked the Black wire EARTH against a chassis earth, with ohm meter and the reading is almost zero Ohm.

The rear lights dim only slightly.

Here is a diagram of the stalk contacts (Be careful trusting this) The connections shown change ok when read on a meter.

View media item 87674
My guess now is either the stalk, but I think it should be ok?? Also the wiring around the stalk.

My concern is if it's inside the earlier mentioned ECU, does this mean Electronic control unit. Does any one know where it is or anything about it?

There are 3x relays near the fuses, but they aren't the flasher. Does anyone know where the flasher relay is?

Camerart.

 

[Spark123]

ECU is an electronic control unit, it usually just deals with the engine side of things such as timing and emissions.
That is not to say there isn't another magic box that deals with all the extras such as lights and indicators, (some Audi's have CCMs in a right daft place where water gets in.)
Another option is to probe the wires (volts DC with respect to negative) with the stalk attached (and indicators off - central position) and when it isn't attached to see if there is any difference.

 

[camerart]

Logically, I doubt the indicators would go through the ECU.

It would help if I could find the relay, the fault may be in there.

I'll try probing.

Camerart.

 

[camerart]

Here is the Body control module.

I traced the indicator wires to it, see earlier updated schematic.

When the Stalk is connected to it's plug, the BK to WH and BK to OR shows continuity at the BCM plug. (Stalk OK)

View media item 87675
Does anyone know which relay is the indicator? Hopefully I should be able to trace it myself, but if anyone has any ideas let me know before I switch on the soldering iron.

Camerart.

 

[Spark123]

They call that progress!!! In the olden days we'd have a 555 chip, a few components and a relay. That almost looks like a computer, actually it is probably bigger than some computers!
You may even find it is not even relay driven, it could be transistors driving the outputs (albeit I doubt they are at fault as the indicators are flashing ie the output is switching on and off)
Probably new card time, and lets hope it isn't coded to the vehicle