Repointing advice - style colour etc

[Ivor Windybottom]

I got weatherstruck and cut then, but I just called it weatherstruck. I guess the bloke I got in knew what I meant/needed. He made a lovely job of it, some of the bricks were actually in a pretty bad way but it looked like it had just been built when he'd done.

 

[stuart45]

I got weatherstruck and cut then, but I just called it weatherstruck. I guess the bloke I got in knew what I meant/needed. He made a lovely job of it, some of the bricks were actually in a pretty bad way but it looked like it had just been built when he'd done.

If it's done properly it can improve the looks of a wall, even if it's a bit rough.
I was on a job in London years ago doing a repoint, and the Clerk of Works pulled up my mate because he was left handed, and was doing the perps the opposite way to me.

 

[danlightbulb]

Your work is terrible, and the cowboy you hired was terrible too. By your argument that rules out the entire human race.

What advice were you looking for? Your work looks great, carry on (((hugs))) all round??!?

You could get better if you even listened to advice. I've told you your tool's no good, you've told me I'm wrong. I give up.

I already said in my opening post that I wasn't happy with how it's come out and I could redo it. How is it helping me to just say my work looks crap without giving advice on what finish I should go for and what mix etc.

I can't afford to pay a few thousand to get someone in to do this job. I have to do it myself in stages so I just need a simple finish that looks decent with a mix that is suitable and doesn't require specialist equipment to prepare.

Regarding the tools - I already told you that the reason the tool looks more pointy is because it's a smaller size. I've looked at the Marshaltown ones and they look exactly the same profile to me on photos. But this is irrelevant if I'm not going to be using a bucket handle finish anyway. I already have a selection of trowels and flat/tuck pointer tools of various sizes.

View attachment 375800

This is some that I did ages ago that I’d call weatherstruck. Not to be confused with what Stuart is referring to this is just gone over with the trowel and the snots brushed off. (And I’m not claiming it’s any good lol)

That's great that seems perfect for what I need, or I could forget the recess completely and just go flush top and bottom of brick.

It seems really difficult to find any information on simple flush finish.

 

[stuart45]

Flush joints are one of the easist. Once the joints are filled there's a few methods of finishing. You can either hit them with a churn brush when green hard, rub them with a piece of sack cloth or.use a piece of timber like a wooden dowel.
You can have them slightly recessed if you think it looks better.
There's around 20 different pointing styles to choose from, although only a few are commonly used.

 

[danlightbulb]

View attachment 375800

This is some that I did ages ago that I’d call weatherstruck. Not to be confused with what Stuart is referring to this is just gone over with the trowel and the snots brushed off. (And I’m not claiming it’s any good lol)

Also I know it's still wet here but it's still very grey looking. How can I improve the colour if I can't use dyes? I only have the sand available what is stocked at the local merchants or diy sheds. All building sand looks the same to me. Or do I use sharp as well which tends to be more yellow?

 

[danlightbulb]

Flush joints are one of the easist. Once the joints are filled there's a few methods of finishing. You can either hit them with a churn brush when green hard, rub them with a piece of sack cloth or.use a piece of timber like a wooden dowel.
You can have them slightly recessed if you think it looks better.
There's around 20 different pointing styles to choose from, although only a few are commonly used.

Thanks, the joint isn't ironed in this case is it? I just pack the mortar in with my tool and then scrape it off and brush it?

I have an outhouse to do as well so what I think I'll do is try flush pointing on a section of that and then post photo back here to see if it's good enough to continue.

I might also batch up some trial batches using some sharp sand and see if that changes the colour.

I could use lime as well if that would help? I'm not adverse to using lime it's just that wasn't the advice received previously.

 

[23vc]

Also I know it's still wet here but it's still very grey looking. How can I improve the colour if I can't use dyes? I only have the sand available what is stocked at the local merchants or diy sheds. All building sand looks the same to me. Or do I use sharp as well which tends to be more yellow?

You can get yellow building sand, my local merchant has it although their normal is red. I’d imagine that’s going to give a different final colour. Don’t use sharp.

Aside from that I think newer work just looks grey compared to old stuff. I’m about to do a large area on my place and I’m resigned to the fact it’s going to look a lot greyer than the original 60s pointing.

 

[stuart45]

When you finish the joints with a.metal tool it brings cement laitance to the surface, which is why you get that grey, Portland stone colour skin on top. When it weather's back, the colour of the aggregate starts to show, and the colour changes.
A wooden tool tends to bring more aggregate to the surface.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'd argue that whatever shape you want, it needs to be pressed with something to compress the surface together and squeeze out any air. Weatherstruck and bucket handle both involve pressing it. Flush probably doesn't to any great degree, so is likely to be full of voids that will crumble apart shortly after.

Bucket handle can look great if done right, i.e. not using a v-shaped tool that's too narrow 5 minutes after blobbing the mortar in.

 

[danlightbulb]

Ok cool I'm going to start work again within the next couple weeks so I'll do a test patch and post the picture here for feedback.

. Don’t use sharp

Can I ask why? The original pointing, presumably with lime, it's clear to see that there is a more coarse aggregate used.

If you look at this picture you can clearly see the more coarse original mortar where no interference has taken place yet.

Its very soft this original stuff, just falls away to sand when you scrape it with a finger.

 

[stuart45]

It depends what you mean by sharp sand. Nowadays if you ask for a bag of sharp sand you'll get a bag of coarse sharp flooring grade sand. However some fine sands are sharp sand. Sharp refers to the shape of the grains, compared to soft sand which has rounded grains.

 

[danlightbulb]

It depends what you mean by sharp sand. Nowadays if you ask for a bag of sharp sand you'll get a bag of coarse sharp flooring grade sand. However some fine sands are sharp sand. Sharp refers to the shape of the grains, compared to soft sand which has rounded grains.

Sharp sand is just sharp sand what you pick up from the builders merchants. They don't sell different varieties I don't have access to exotic types of sand as far as I know.

Was a special type of sand used in the 30s when they built this house? It was probably just any old sand they got locally filled out with any old crap.

All I can tell is that the old pointing/mortar has a textured look to it it's not smooth.

I've put a bit of the builders sand I used out to dry in the sun to see what it's natural colour is.

 

[stuart45]

Plastering sand is a fine sharp, as is silver sand which is a very fine sharp sand.
Building sand looks the same as the photos of yours when the laitance has weathered back. It's not all fine grains. A well graded building sand contains a mixture of sizes. A rule of thumb is that the largest grains should be no more than 1/3 of the joint size. The coarse sharp sand you get from the merchants has a grain size too large for most brick joints. I use it for repointing stonework with much larger joints, usually mixed with Building sand to make it more workable.
Lots of DIYers put up photos of weathered mortar joints which show larger grains thinking it's a coarse sharp sand. That type of sand would be really difficult to build a brick wall with.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Building sand looks like it's really fine when it's in a heap in front of you.

When it weathers, the fine bits fall away and the coarser bits remain, it then looks quite crunchy and almost like sharp sand.

But the original is probably some rough sand straight out of the ground, not even seived, mixed with lime. You need to cut it well back and get a good depth over it, not like that photo you showed where it looks like the pointing had been painted on.

 

[James Davis]

Pointing is supposed to be dug out to about 20mm. Spreading new stuff over the surface is a waste of time and will drop off later. And looks ****.