Repointing Victorian brickwork: are they using the right mortar?

[sxturbo]

thats not a proper lime mortar,

thats a cement with a lime additive, this is different to pure hydraulic lime mortar.

https://www.graymont.com/en/markets/building-construction/mortar/mixing-cement-lime-mortars.

to be able to tell what the house was built with post a picture of the mortar after the builders have done their raking out (it's likely the building has been pointed a couple of times during its lifetime)

 

[chriseastlondon]

This is a picture of the back, where they've replaced some bricks (the dustier-looking ones are the ones they've put in). As you can see, they've started repointing. Can you see from this picture? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l-uVm8h9HjWXPMzNVe1uurs9WXLuGO6K/view?usp=sharing

 

[chriseastlondon]

This is the only picture I've got of the brickwork on the front of the house after the original mortar had been removed and before they repointed it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NL_QMWLs81B_d0EapIeshfDu4sQKUEpr/view?usp=sharing

 

[gasbanni]

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/repointing-brick-and-stone-walls/

https://www.limebase.co.uk/lime-mortars

Stop them till the materials issue is resolved !!!!!

 

[sxturbo]

This is a picture of the back, where they've replaced some bricks (the dustier-looking ones are the ones they've put in). As you can see, they've started repointing. Can you see from this picture? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l-uVm8h9HjWXPMzNVe1uurs9WXLuGO6K/view?usp=sharing

you should be pointing with hydraulic lime mortar, this is original, (circled red), their pointing is clearly not hydraulic lime (circled green), it looks like there have been been a number of poor repairs over the years, this may add to the confusion.

you need to stop them completing further work

 

[^woody^]

Why are you having the red bricks repointed?

Those bricks look quite eroded, and the mortar looks sound but with many shrinkage cracks. This indicates that the mortar is cement and it was too strong, this causes the bricks to erode and the joints to crack.

As for lime and cement mortar, lime can be added to a cement mortar to aid workability, and its still a cement mortar. Cement can't be added to a lime mortar.

 

[sxturbo]

Why are you having the red bricks repointed?

Those bricks look quite eroded, and the mortar looks sound but with many shrinkage cracks. This indicates that the mortar is cement and it was too strong, this causes the bricks to erode and the joints to crack.

the red bricks look like they have been repointed in the past with cement mortar instead of hydraulic lime which the house would have been built with

 

[chriseastlondon]

Again, thanks for your replies - very helpful. The reason for getting the red bricks repointed is that the front of the house had been patched here and there and then painted several times. Various types of fillers had been used. It was a bit of a mess.

 

[sxturbo]

Again, thanks for your replies - very helpful. The reason for getting the red bricks repointed is that the front of the house had been patched here and there and then painted several times. Various types of fillers had been used. It was a bit of a mess.

hopefully we have helped, and fingers crossed you can get it rectified with little additional expense.

 

[stuart45]

It's your house. You should get lime mortar if you asked for it.

 

[Bullet-Proof_Biscuit]

The bricks are originally built (mortared) with lime mortar, they cannot be pointed with cement because the lime mortar underneath cannot breathe through it, this causes moisture retention in the brick and they will start spalling next winter.. STOP them now and make sure they dig out everything they've done and use a non-cement based (lime) pointing mortar...

 

[chriseastlondon]

Thanks again for your advice. Another quick question... Can they justify referring to cement mortar with a lime additive as 'lime mortar'? The comments by sxturbo and ^woody^ suggest they can't. Just checking I'm reading you correctly.

 

[sxturbo]

Thanks again for your advice. Another quick question... Can they justify referring to cement mortar with a lime additive as 'lime mortar'? The comments by sxturbo and ^woody^ suggest they can't. Just checking I'm reading you correctly.

No they can't, 2x different things that just so happen to have one ingredient the same. It's like saying egg and bacon is the same as poached egg and avocado.

 

[chriseastlondon]

Thanks. That's really helpful.

 

[chriseastlondon]

They've stopped work but it's blown up into an argument. They argue that I should have specified I wanted hydraulic lime, and that their mix containing cement and lime can be described as a 'lime mortar'. I've said I need to get an independent opinion - either a trader or a surveyor - before they continue. They argue their mix is approved by architects and building firms.

I'll see if I can get any advice from trading standards. I have already paid for the pointing on the front of the house, which was done a few weeks ago. I haven't paid for the pointing on the back, which is still in progress.