Rewire questions (inc CU pics)

[mikefear]

I live in a 1930's typical west yorkshire 3 bed semi. I was told when I bought the house 5 years ago that the electrics had been completely rewired in the mid 80's when an extension was added (without any planning permission I might add but that's another story).

Anyway... The first sign I noticed that all might not be well was I came to replace a light fitting with a metal one and found two single grey cables and no earth, which was strange because all the other lights/switches all appear to be ok (well have an earth at least). This particular light was on a two way landing circuit so I think the origional wiring was probably left in place here when it was redone perhaps as it would make too much mess? Anyway I borrowed an earth from the light in the next room (yes I know slapped wrist, wrong thing to do etc etc) and jobs a good one. I also added a new light to the landing which is where I found your forums, and the invaluable help to the electrically uneducated like myself.

After reading all the advice in peoples threads and hopefully taking a little on board, I decided to investigate the state of this wiring (having a strong suspicion that the 1980's rewire was a DIY job, since everything else in the house is DIY). This is what I found so far.

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Of the 3 6A mcbs the first one runs absolutely nothing, the second one runs the lights for the 1980's extension, well at least most of it, the bathroom of the extension is on another circuit. The third one runs every other light in the original house, and for some reason the bathroom in the extension?!?!
The 16A space used to house an imersion heater that was removed when I had a combi fitted in a kitchen upgrade last summer. Hopefully it has been disconnected at the CU, but all the wiring is certainly still under the floors upstairs, should this have been removed too?
The first 32A mcb runs the extension sockets, which are easily acessable and all on a nice ring (there is however a floating FCU under the studded floor with no box or anything powering a saniflow in the extension bathroom). The final 32A mcb runs every other socket in the house except the kitchen.
The kitchen sockets are from the new proteus CU in the bottom corner, the only one with any RCD fitted.

Problems:
Sockets :- This explains the lack of sockets upstairs. Each room has 1 double socket and one in the hall, 2 of which are spurs from the others, the others appear to be on a ring but I wouldn't say for sure they're not spuring off elsewhere.
Lights :- A quick tot up and there are 1530W of lighting on one 6A mcb I'm thinking then if I switched every light on it would trip?

Clearly then from reading your advice its gonna be time for a rewire. But the original cable route from the CU now lies behind a very expensive kitchen/tiles/cooker hood/units. They then also pass up through the fully tiled (floor and walls) bathroom which was done last year. I'm therefore a little concerned at the prospect of having to rip apart the best part of 20k's work that's all under two years old if a new cable route can't be found. So (after all that) here's the questions:

-Is it time for a rewire (ok I answered that myself) but is it a must?
-Is finding a new route generally easy (best guess I know you cant be sure)
-I'm looking to sell the house in ~5 years could there be problems if sold in this condition?
-Is returning to blissfull ignorance, i.e. before finding this forum a definite no? I.e. is this inherantly dangerous.
-Generally what condition do you aim to return a property to after a rewire? I.e. No making good, wallpaperable, paintable etc.

Cheers for the help guys. I had better get saving methinks.

 

[New2Game]

From a safety point of view mate i'd get a full periodic inspection report done. This will tell you of any defects and dangerous situations. It could be cheaper to have this done and any defects put right than having the full building rewired. The extent of making good, painting wallpapering would be agreed with the spark before work commenced. I normally make plastering good but expect the customer to arrange any decorations needed.

 

[mikefear]

From a safety point of view mate i'd get a full periodic inspection report done. This will tell you of any defects and dangerous situations. It could be cheaper to have this done and any defects put right than having the full building rewired. The extent of making good, painting wallpapering would be agreed with the spark before work commenced. I normally make plastering good but expect the customer to arrange any decorations needed.

Yes I didn't mean for the sparky to be hanging the wallpaper or anything, just some of the rooms are plastered and painted so I didn't know if for instance this would be left within a couple of mm and then have to go to the further expense of a plasterer for a good finish. (I'm the worlds worst plasterer so respect to anyone who can do that job!).

The original fishing around with the sockets was because I was looking to get someone in to add 2 or 3 more to each room on the "upstairs ring".... only to find I didn't have one. I kind of got the impression that with wiring like this, that wouldn't be an option now because nobody would certify the work, or rather there'd be a lot of work in it to bring it up to scratch.

 

[New2Game]

Like said, you needed a periodic inspection report doing matey, without that you dont know what your up against.

 

[ColJack]

the fcu in the floor definitely needs to be put into a wall somewhere ( outside the bathroom )

the sockets in the rest of the house need to be on the RCD for safety reasons..

the lights need splitting out into upstairs and downstairs.. ( a good job you've got a spare 6A then... )

I see they changed the fuses to breakers but left you the old holders and even some spare fuses...

generally for selling a house, more sockets = better...

2 doubles in the corner of the room where the tv goes with a double in every corner of all the rooms.... and spaced about every 3 meters along long walls..
a double where the phone comes into the house ( for charger / answer machine.. )
one either side of the bed for alarm / bedside light etc..


and a recent re-wire with certificates and such is always a boost to selling a house since the buyer doesn't have to worry about it.

while you're at the re-wire, it might also be a good idea to "future proof" your house with aerial cables and telephone and cat 6 network cables to bedrooms, living rooms and home office..

these would all be bonuses to me if I were buying a house..

 

[plugwash]

I would say in this situation a full rewire is probablly unnessacery but you certainly need to make some improvements.

I'd move the socket circuits to the proteus box so they get rcd protection. The lights can stay where they are (better not to have lights on RCD).

you need to work out what is actually going on with the sockets upstairs and possiblly add a new ring for upstairs sockets. As for the overloaded lighting circuit provided there are no SES or SBC fittings you can almost certainly uprate this

the FCU has already been mentioned. At least put a box on this until you've worked out what to do with it and try and get it moved to an accessible location ASAP.

if i were you i'd fix the issues you know about and then get a periodic inspection done to check there is nothing remaining.

do note that you are supposed to notify some of the work that is required to building control if you do it yourself.

 

[securespark]

The grey cable in the earth block, does that go to the cutout? Tails look 16mm² - are they?

Have you got MEB to gas & water pipes?

 

[mikefear]

Thanks for the replies.

I’ve disconnected the spur for the saniflow since it’s not worked for about 6 months (although, now I realize it’s on a fused spur I’m thinking it might just be the fuse that’s gone so I might just reconnect it albeit boxed up just to see if that’s the case).

Moving the sockets to the RCD board sounds sensible, but I get random earth trips every couple of months (this is not good when your fridge/freezer is on the circuit). If this could possibly be made worse by adding the socket ring to it, could I get a non RCD protected supply just to the fridge/freezer just to be safe for holidays etc?

The Earth bonding was supposedly upgraded at a cost when the kitchen was put in so all should be ok there. Although I remember the sparky moaning about it being a ***** of a job to get the bonding within the allowed distance of the gas meter and I can’t actually see any earth wires there, but I assume it was actually done…

It looks like it’s off to the yellow pages to find someone to do the periodic inspection then. I wouldn’t dream of touching anything on the CU myself anyway. While I know in theory it’s only the tails that are live with the main switch off I know what my luck is like and have no intention to get frazzled.

The really annoying thing about having to resort to the yellow pages, is I have a couple of sparky friends (well one good mate and one acquaintance from my old pool team), who can happily come to my work and install my 3 phase machinery etc but daren’t touch domestic, not having the necessary approvals. Oh well.

 

[Adam_151]

Speak to your local building control office and explain the situation, you might find that if your sparky mate gives you an EIC for the work, there is a good chance that you'll be able to pay ~£120 to building control before hand, fax the cert to the LABC and have them sign the work off (many of them don't have sufficent resources to inspect electrical work and will be glad for a correctly filled out EIC to land on their desk, rather than having the usual mis-mash of crap DIY work to pick holes in)