when rewiring an occupied house how do you still supply power? would you do it in sections? i.e upstairs lighting and ring cables ripped out and an upstairs supply temporarily off the bottom ring etc. ive been involved with new build and empty properties where there is no customer to think about. how do you do it?
rewiring an occupied house
- Thread starter granthamarms
- Start date
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If there is space at the consumer unit position, fit the new consumer unit with temp supply to 1 socket box. Ensure the socket box is in a safe and convenient location for boiling the kettle. Test and certify.
Get meter tails moved to new CU, leaving old box dead.
If necessary: Remove any heavy loads (showers/immersions/cookers) off the old fuseboards. Often shower can be done without for a few days if there is HW to a bath, and the cooker can have its knobs taped over to leave the household with 2 rings and 1 oven, to reduce max demand.
Temporarily connect old box meter tails to one circuit on new box with DP RCBO. This gives all existing wiring immediate RCD protection which is important for your own safety.
As new circuits are wired into ways on new box, disconnect and pull out from old box.
Remove old box when redundant.
This avoids any problems with DNO refusing to energise an old installation, fitting henley blocks etc, and immediately provides RCD protection to the old stuff in case you drill through or grab a live cable by mistake. Also it is quick and easy to isolate all old stuff using the DP RCBO, whilst keeping the new stuff live for tools etc. And you are pretty much guaranteed a permanent supply for the kettle.
Get meter tails moved to new CU, leaving old box dead.
If necessary: Remove any heavy loads (showers/immersions/cookers) off the old fuseboards. Often shower can be done without for a few days if there is HW to a bath, and the cooker can have its knobs taped over to leave the household with 2 rings and 1 oven, to reduce max demand.
Temporarily connect old box meter tails to one circuit on new box with DP RCBO. This gives all existing wiring immediate RCD protection which is important for your own safety.
As new circuits are wired into ways on new box, disconnect and pull out from old box.
Remove old box when redundant.
This avoids any problems with DNO refusing to energise an old installation, fitting henley blocks etc, and immediately provides RCD protection to the old stuff in case you drill through or grab a live cable by mistake. Also it is quick and easy to isolate all old stuff using the DP RCBO, whilst keeping the new stuff live for tools etc. And you are pretty much guaranteed a permanent supply for the kettle.
Are you doing this for a living?
If so then - you are "at work" when you do it.
Therefore the Electricity at work Regulations apply to your situation.
Hope this makes sense
Martin
If so then - you are "at work" when you do it.
Therefore the Electricity at work Regulations apply to your situation.
Hope this makes sense
Martin
You can preety much double the time to rewire a house when it is occupied.
I have done it twice (one large detatched house and a 2 up 2 down terrace) and would not recommend it for the spark or the occupier.
The critical thing is that you may have to keep two or three consumer units going at once - and there are continuing health and safety issues to consider - remember that even if the occupier is fully aware of what is and isn't live and something goes wrong then guess who will carry the can. Furthermore, you have to decide with the occupier who will take responsibility for moving furniture from one room to another - and don't forget about the contents of the loft.
The large detatched house was a little easier because I was able to the divide the four bedrooms into two separate zones with individual RCBO's for lighting and socket circuits. This allowed floor boards to be left up and circuits isolated but also meant the occupiers could use the other bedrooms. Landings can also be an issue but in this case the downstairs had basement access.
Downstairs had three separate rooms and a kitchen diner. You soon realise that the kitchen is the heart of the house when you restrict access to it. In this instance the kitchen was being replaced so I had to work off the kitchen plan which invariably meant removing old units to access the new positions and then partially refitting them. Kitchen took four days instead of two.
For the rest of the house each room was treated as a separate socket circuit. Again because of the size of the property the family simply moved from one room to another as the circuits were added and removed.
The Terrace house was a nightmare. Stone downstairs floors meant everything had to go through the upstair joists. 2 adults and 2 under 10 kids in situ.
Critical to make sure every circuit was completed and/or made safe at the end of the day - absolutely nowhere to put excess furniture. Empty 2 up and 2 down property would normally take four days max - took nearly two weeks.
Moral don't do it - if you have to then agree at the outset with the customer how things will work and his/her responsibilites. Also give then a realistic time scale and charge accordingly.
I have done it twice (one large detatched house and a 2 up 2 down terrace) and would not recommend it for the spark or the occupier.
The critical thing is that you may have to keep two or three consumer units going at once - and there are continuing health and safety issues to consider - remember that even if the occupier is fully aware of what is and isn't live and something goes wrong then guess who will carry the can. Furthermore, you have to decide with the occupier who will take responsibility for moving furniture from one room to another - and don't forget about the contents of the loft.
The large detatched house was a little easier because I was able to the divide the four bedrooms into two separate zones with individual RCBO's for lighting and socket circuits. This allowed floor boards to be left up and circuits isolated but also meant the occupiers could use the other bedrooms. Landings can also be an issue but in this case the downstairs had basement access.
Downstairs had three separate rooms and a kitchen diner. You soon realise that the kitchen is the heart of the house when you restrict access to it. In this instance the kitchen was being replaced so I had to work off the kitchen plan which invariably meant removing old units to access the new positions and then partially refitting them. Kitchen took four days instead of two.
For the rest of the house each room was treated as a separate socket circuit. Again because of the size of the property the family simply moved from one room to another as the circuits were added and removed.
The Terrace house was a nightmare. Stone downstairs floors meant everything had to go through the upstair joists. 2 adults and 2 under 10 kids in situ.
Critical to make sure every circuit was completed and/or made safe at the end of the day - absolutely nowhere to put excess furniture. Empty 2 up and 2 down property would normally take four days max - took nearly two weeks.
Moral don't do it - if you have to then agree at the outset with the customer how things will work and his/her responsibilites. Also give then a realistic time scale and charge accordingly.
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Occupied rewires are a nightmare.... Get the occupiers to treat themselves to a holiday! Have you warned them about the dust and general mess that will occur? They may well underestimate this aspect of it.
I would change the board and put in a couple of temp radial ccts: one upstairs one downstairs with a max of two points each cct, and let them make do!! Give them some candles!!
Or alternatively do as you suggest and change board then leave temp supply to differing floor. If I did it this way the temp supply would be an extension lead tho. Potential problem here is nuisance tripping with the old cabling.
GOOD LUCK!
I would change the board and put in a couple of temp radial ccts: one upstairs one downstairs with a max of two points each cct, and let them make do!! Give them some candles!!
Or alternatively do as you suggest and change board then leave temp supply to differing floor. If I did it this way the temp supply would be an extension lead tho. Potential problem here is nuisance tripping with the old cabling.
GOOD LUCK!
H
holmslaw
..
yes, envisaged a bastard job! im well aware of the mess as ive worked in empty properties ( no point in dust sheets). the house is to be totally decorated with a new kitchen and bathroom, no carpets, old boards but there is a lot of clutter in the way. 3 bed, run down semi. i like the idea of suggesting a holiday. i might need one as well afterwards.
I'll assume the reception rooms downstairs have wooden floors, not concrete.
Day one.
Strip out upstairs lighting, except main feed from consumer unit.
Rewire upstairs lights, then second fix. Leave old landing 2 way cable temporarily disconnected, or you could temporarily connect it.
Connect old feed to new lighting to give customer light.
Day two.
Downstairs lights and upstairs sockets.
Loosen off all downstairs ceiling roses.
Lift floorboards.
Leave existing sockets as they are, don't disconnect yet.
Run socket cables as appropriate. Typically the wires will emerge from the tops of the skirting boards.
Leave cables that go to consumer unit coiled under a loose floorboard above the cu.
Don't strip out old lighting cables yet, but turn off and loosen the roses off the ceiling. Run all the feed cables, drop the cables out of the ceiling.
See what the time is.
If still early disconnect old switch cables and run in the new ones. Generally there will be old conduit to use.
Run the main lighting feed from the cu, leave the cu end coiled up under the floor.
Second fix lights, don't connect the new main feed in the first ceiling rose; temporarily connect the old feed, leaving the new cable coiled up safely in the rose.
Put back floorboards and carpet.
Day three.
Downstairs sockets.
Leave existing sockets as they are, Run new cables alongside, emerging out the top of the skirting boards. Run feeds back to cu position.
Put flooring back.
Second fix all sockets.
10 mm earth cables to services will have been put in before this stage, whatever necessary route. Fit the clamps.
Day four.
Run all the cables back to the mains position, do any testing, fit consumer unit, do any testing.
Remove all old sockets, as today they will have become dead. Leave old wiring under the floor, because you don't want to take up the floor as you want minimal disruption.
Usually a standard rewire will take one man a maximum of 5 days, obviously factors like the type of flooring, the extent of the kitchen requirements, heating etc can seriously mess up the plan.
Day two is the hardest day, and could easily become two days, so you may have to lay floorboards and carpet loosely until the next day.
Day one.
Strip out upstairs lighting, except main feed from consumer unit.
Rewire upstairs lights, then second fix. Leave old landing 2 way cable temporarily disconnected, or you could temporarily connect it.
Connect old feed to new lighting to give customer light.
Day two.
Downstairs lights and upstairs sockets.
Loosen off all downstairs ceiling roses.
Lift floorboards.
Leave existing sockets as they are, don't disconnect yet.
Run socket cables as appropriate. Typically the wires will emerge from the tops of the skirting boards.
Leave cables that go to consumer unit coiled under a loose floorboard above the cu.
Don't strip out old lighting cables yet, but turn off and loosen the roses off the ceiling. Run all the feed cables, drop the cables out of the ceiling.
See what the time is.
If still early disconnect old switch cables and run in the new ones. Generally there will be old conduit to use.
Run the main lighting feed from the cu, leave the cu end coiled up under the floor.
Second fix lights, don't connect the new main feed in the first ceiling rose; temporarily connect the old feed, leaving the new cable coiled up safely in the rose.
Put back floorboards and carpet.
Day three.
Downstairs sockets.
Leave existing sockets as they are, Run new cables alongside, emerging out the top of the skirting boards. Run feeds back to cu position.
Put flooring back.
Second fix all sockets.
10 mm earth cables to services will have been put in before this stage, whatever necessary route. Fit the clamps.
Day four.
Run all the cables back to the mains position, do any testing, fit consumer unit, do any testing.
Remove all old sockets, as today they will have become dead. Leave old wiring under the floor, because you don't want to take up the floor as you want minimal disruption.
Usually a standard rewire will take one man a maximum of 5 days, obviously factors like the type of flooring, the extent of the kitchen requirements, heating etc can seriously mess up the plan.
Day two is the hardest day, and could easily become two days, so you may have to lay floorboards and carpet loosely until the next day.
I'm currently in the middle of doing an occupied re-wire. I've put in a temporary double socket upstairs while i do the final ring for it. I guess i'm lucky as the two bed house has only one person living in it so there's one bedroom full of furniture and the other i've just had to move stuff around as i go.
Lighting is pretty easy for the upstairs as most wiring is in the loft so not a massive issue as you cut out and change cable as you go - one thing I have done is use a temporary fused switch spur to control on/off.
I've found that the upstairs existing radial circuit also feeds downstairs living room sockets while trying to isolate everything so this could also work to my advantage when I do the downstairs ring final next week. One good thing for me is the house was so poorly served socket wise to date i've only needed to remove three live sockets
Lighting is pretty easy for the upstairs as most wiring is in the loft so not a massive issue as you cut out and change cable as you go - one thing I have done is use a temporary fused switch spur to control on/off.
I've found that the upstairs existing radial circuit also feeds downstairs living room sockets
while trying to isolate everything so this could also work to my advantage when I do the downstairs ring final next week. One good thing for me is the house was so poorly served socket wise to date i've only needed to remove three live sockets 
Sparkwright is spot on. I used to do quite a few occupied rewires and we would do it exactly as described by him.
Normally five days was enough for me and an apprentice working 8.30 - 5 on site including making good all the chases.
If the old lighting reeds were in bad condition or whatever, we'd just put a plug on the end of the new feed and plug it in somewhere so the customer had lights overnight.
Normally five days was enough for me and an apprentice working 8.30 - 5 on site including making good all the chases.
If the old lighting reeds were in bad condition or whatever, we'd just put a plug on the end of the new feed and plug it in somewhere so the customer had lights overnight.
Without reading the replies.
One way is to leave all existing wiring and accessories in place and fit new accessories adjacent existing ones. On the last day you can finally isolate and test/power up the new installation. Strip out the old stuff and make good.
thanks everyone for your replies, thanks again sparkwright for your detailed breakdown. im keen to hear from chivers 67 about how his job went once the job is finished.
I've sometime been asked to repair/replace floorboard cos i'm too good at this after a rewired is completed. T G floorboard are easier to lift, chipboard is a nightmare to lift as some use teeth nails and hard to lift without breaking.
Make sure the flooring is secured before refix carpets.
Dan.
Make sure the flooring is secured before refix carpets.
Dan.
Often you can do this with sockets, as they will be in the wrong places or on the skirting board.
Bit of a problem with lighting, as ceiling rose and switch positions need to be kept. Switch conduits can be re-used, and the old centre light will leave a nasty hole.
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