Rip Off Of The Week??

[Sylvan Tieger]

Yes, but surely the answers would be more interesting than for one of Joe-90's topics!

Apparently I'm Joe's rip-off scoundrel of the week, along with anyone who earns more than minimum wage, teachers and nurses (who in themselves obviously earn more than the minimum wage) .

A men to plumbers/ electricians / roofers/ etc who know their worth and are not ashamed to charge for their education.

My apprenticeship 5 years 10,000 hours plus 144 hours of class room studies codes /welding /blue print drawing and reading/ safety etc.

Another 5 years working for a master plumber before I was even eligible
to take the 4 part masters exams over a period of one year

That is 10 years training plus my CEU to maintain my licenses and certification's

Someone has to pay for it as my education did not come easy or free.

I charge by the hour as 98% of my work is repair and my mark up on materials is 75 -200%

Why such a mark up?

Because most of the plumbing materials are now imported and If I install a valve and it has a casting defect I can either braze it or replace it either way I am stuck as the material failed.

The hefty mark up on materials protects me from manufacturing defects and items that are stolen (pinched) on the job site.

Many plumbers do not figure in their prices the cost of solder / flux / emery cloth /wire brush /flux brush/ acetylene /mapp and wear and tear on the pipe and tubing cutters.

Marking up reciprocating blades for example by 40% helps cover the cost of replacing the electric saws when they flunk out.


Keeping abreast of code changes buying new books replacing worn snake wires are all over head that many contractors never take into consideration.

I would rather fault a bloke for being to cheap then to expensive.

You can always judge how successful a contractor is by looking at the quality of life his employees have.

Bill Gates gives his top employees 6 months off paid vacation I guess he must be charging the right prices.

If A contractor I hire drives up in an old van I send him packing as I know he is not doing something right.

One ambassador I used to work for tld me to buy my first Mercedes I asked him why?

He said propaganda if you look sucessful then people will expect higher prices once they see you are driving around in a junkier.

Now on the other hand if instead of a 560 Mercedes I drove up in a Bentley I could rightly understand why an account would give me the boot as they realize someone has to pay for that much luxury and they would be upset.

Fine line between being called a thief and a good businessman who knows their worth.


By the way my personal best so far was $10,000 for ONE DAY'S work installing roof drains (7) hours me and two helpers


The account paid me on the spot with a check as they were thankful they no longer had to worry about leaks over a computer room because when the computers were down they said they lost over 1 MILLION PER HR in transactions.

If someone just heard a licensed master plumber with two teenagers grossed $10,000 for 7 hours it would seem high but its all relative as I do not come close to the million per hr.

More power to the folks who know to price properly as why rob your family from a better life.

 

[Softus]

Me.

Myself.

Me and myself.

Me me me me me me me me me. And myself.

Oh, and guns.

 

[Sylvan Tieger]

what do people think about a plumber who came out to look at my boiler which had a problem heating the water. i explained what was happening on the phone - the hot water wouldn't come on sometimes when the heating was turned on.

he came out the next day and looked at the thing and said "yes its a feature of the ferroli combi to have a time delay of a few minutes, hence the water wont come on. and that will be £70 please.

he could so easily have told me this on the phone. anyway i said i would pay his travelling time and give him £25 cash. he said no so i gave him a cheque and cancelled it straight away. ****!

Very unfair of you mate as the plumber did come out and looked at the boiler to make sure there were no serious problems then told you what he suspected and you stop payment on his check.

Then people want to know why people in the trades charge so much.

It is to make up for the few dead beats out there.

What if you had a severe head ache went to a doctor and asked what you have been eating and said "Oh yes that can cause that kind of reaction" would you also have stopped payment?

I learned over the years to give an hourly rate or any part there of over the phone for any service call.

People have to realize they are paying for the knowledge and over head we contractos have.

While he wasted his time and money traveling to you he could have been doing a job for a person who appriciates the service he did render.

You called for service he came and told you exactly what was going and and youstiff the man SHAME ON YOU.

Bet next time you smell gas or have no heat he will give you the same consideration

 

[Kev F]

ive been knocked and i know of others who have. I fitted a fire charging £100 inc vat i thought that was cheap. did the soundness test in front of the customer and everything was fine, waited for the cheque! nothing. He then phones and says there is a gas leak where he has tried boxing over the supply pipe and wont pay me till i fix it. Told him i would have to charge him for the trouble. He refused and suddenly dissapears. Now i can see why people charge so much to cover for such examples but recently i have lost 2 heating jobs for being too cheap. I was charging £250 plus vat labour a day and 20% on the materials. Asked customer how much cheaper i was and they said by £1000.

 

[seco services]

ive been knocked and i know of others who have. I fitted a fire charging £100 inc vat i thought that was cheap. did the soundness test in front of the customer and everything was fine, waited for the cheque! nothing. He then phones and says there is a gas leak where he has tried boxing over the supply pipe and wont pay me till i fix it. Told him i would have to charge him for the trouble. He refused and suddenly dissapears. Now i can see why people charge so much to cover for such examples but recently i have lost 2 heating jobs for being too cheap. I was charging £250 plus vat labour a day and 20% on the materials. Asked customer how much cheaper i was and they said by £1000.

so why did you not get paid before you left if he was paying by cheque.
if i have no cash or cheque in my hand after paperwork signed by customer i make myself comforble on the settee till paid.

no payment fire pulled out. gas capped.

 

[Whitespirit66]

ive been knocked and i know of others who have. I fitted a fire charging £100 inc vat i thought that was cheap. did the soundness test in front of the customer and everything was fine, waited for the cheque! nothing. He then phones and says there is a gas leak where he has tried boxing over the supply pipe and wont pay me till i fix it. Told him i would have to charge him for the trouble. He refused and suddenly dissapears. Now i can see why people charge so much to cover for such examples but recently i have lost 2 heating jobs for being too cheap. I was charging £250 plus vat labour a day and 20% on the materials. Asked customer how much cheaper i was and they said by £1000.

so why did you not get paid before you left if he was paying by cheque.
if i have no cash or cheque in my hand after paperwork signed by customer i make myself comforble on the settee till paid.

no payment fire pulled out. gas capped.

I got caught out by a customer who didn't want to pay after the job was completed. Went outside to van to get tools to undo my work, and customer closed door and wouldn't let me in again.

Now, I always make sure that I keep my tool box with me in their house until I'm paid!!

 

[seco services]

Now, I always make sure that I keep my tool box with me in their house until I'm paid!!

make ya right
never take all ya tools back to van before payment.

 

[Kev F]

lets just say lesson learnt. being only 26 and self employed i honestly thought that all people were honest customers, now i know otherwise and get them to agree to quotes beforehand. Job was a good 30 mins away and for the £100 labour it would cost me more in time and hassle to go back. Like i said lesson learnt.

 

[Sylvan Tieger]

I do not know the laws in your neck of the woods but here if you get a signature (anyone 18 or above) on a work order that constitues a contract and makes it a lot easier if you have to collect using a lawyer.

A full 99% of my accounts are billed and no signature except for new accounts.

I recently did an installation for slightly under $11,000 no contract just a phone call from a contractor to do some installations for the day.

About a month later the check arrived.

Another job was over $90,000 on just a hand shake.

The only job in recent years I got beating on was a service call of $150 to clear basin stoppage and this Bi polar lady did not have the funds in the bank so her check bounced like a rubber ball.

I do accept check, credit cards and often just bill the accounts.

After a few years most contractors get a feeling as whom they can trust.

Point of information


So far SOFTUS has given no sound advice !

 

[mark vincent]

Why don't tradesmen have to state their terms and conditions before they come out, and why isn't there a fixed rate per hr, say around 35 pounds per hr for a single tradesman this should be the law.

that tells me your not a tradesman.

if i read all my t/c on the phone we'll be here ages.

how can you have a fixed rate for different trades you can't even do it for one trade as everybody has different overheads, mileage to jobs, different vans and fuel consumption etc.

Iwas talking about the charge for labour only, if it takes an hour to get to a job 2 hrs to do it and an hour to go back home plus the cost of fuel a nd materials what is hard about that.

 

[seco services]

Why don't tradesmen have to state their terms and conditions before they come out, and why isn't there a fixed rate per hr, say around 35 pounds per hr for a single tradesman this should be the law.

that tells me your not a tradesman.

if i read all my t/c on the phone we'll be here ages.

how can you have a fixed rate for different trades you can't even do it for one trade as everybody has different overheads, mileage to jobs, different vans and fuel consumption etc.

Iwas talking about the charge for labour only, if it takes an hour to get to a job 2 hrs to do it and an hour to go back home plus the cost of fuel a nd materials what is hard about that.

you can't do it in any trade and never will.

 

[Sylvan Tieger]

How come you folks in england never head of CREDIT CARDS?

I take credit card call my office give them the amount and the credit card numbers and with in 3 minutes I know if their credit is good.


In 26 + years I had only TWO (2) bad payers.

Get a signature on a work order for new accounts as a signature can constitute a contract.

The Key I found is not to be CHEAP as people respect professional pricing 20% mark up on materials is TOO LOW as one has to charge enough to cover for manufacturing defects

 

[Softus]

How come you folks in england never head of CREDIT CARDS?

How come you folk in the USA never use the spellchecker?

BTW, the word "England" has a capital letter, because it is a proper noun.

I take credit card call my office give them the amount and the credit card numbers and with in 3 minutes I know if their credit is good.

In 26 + years I had only TWO (2) bad payers.

Me me me me me.

Get a signature on a work order for new accounts as a signature can constitute a contract.

Not on its own it can't, at least not under English Law, because a contract is void unless all parties have the intention of forming it.

The Key I found is not to be CHEAP as people respect professional pricing 20% mark up on materials is TOO LOW as one has to charge enough to cover for manufacturing defects

If 20% is too low then your overheads are too high.
________________________

If gas kills, then lazy gas engineers are murderers.

 

[mark vincent]

Why don't tradesmen have to state their terms and conditions before they come out, and why isn't there a fixed rate per hr, say around 35 pounds per hr for a single tradesman this should be the law.

that tells me your not a tradesman.

if i read all my t/c on the phone we'll be here ages.

how can you have a fixed rate for different trades you can't even do it for one trade as everybody has different overheads, mileage to jobs, different vans and fuel consumption etc.

Iwas talking about the charge for labour only, if it takes an hour to get to a job 2 hrs to do it and an hour to go back home plus the cost of fuel a nd materials what is hard about that.

you can't do it in any trade and never will.

Why not?

 

[Bilioustrumpstaine]

Yes, fair comment.

Shall I re-phrase my question: Does anyone know of a bigger PLUMBING rip off?

I know a guy who has recently paid £1800 to have his hot water cylinder changed. I suspect that it only needed the element changing.

The fitter told the victim that it was a "special" cylinder.