rogue trader filming

[chrishutt]

So the customer saves 50% fuel per year on their hot water by installing solar panels.

Say the average gas bill for water is £200.

Thats a saving of £100 per year.

£4000 / £100 = 40 years payback time.

Compare that with sticking the £4k in the bank and getting 5% interest. That's £200 per year. So investing £4k in solar heating doesn't save money at all, it loses money.

At the end of 10 years you've made £2k + interest on that if you reinvested it, and your original deposit is still intact and instantly available.

 

[silverback]

So Chris, in your opinion solar is a bad investment, so lets all carry on using fossel fuels, pay through the nose, ruin the enviroment and then run out of fossil fuels, what then?
Back in the 60's people had the same attitude with central heating, it was too expensive and only for the rich, if you were cold you put another jumper on, but in 5-10 years every household will have some form of renewable energy.

 

[Rob]

as said its prob more the thought that your helping the environment than saving cash, however how much energy has gone into making the panels in the first place

probably alot more than theyre saving, its all a bit gimmicky really, same as hybrid cars and condensing boilers

as a nation were far too small to make any sort of difference to the greenhouse effect

all the cars in britain produces the same amount of carbon as china does every 45 days! so next time you see someone in a prius, just laugh!

 

[ollski]

I suppose that makes it a better energy saving installation than a condensing boiler though.

 

[Biggles..]

What a dissaster last nights show has acheived. as a STA member i felt the need to thank them for their help in promoting the interests of small companies like mine. background was that i quoted for a job early last week which involved a Vaillant mini pack 2.5 panel, aurostor cylinder and a few other minor issues. materials priced up at £3000 so with labour, scaffolld, van ,diesel etc a entered my price only today to get a phone call stating that the man on the telly said they should be able to have it all installed for £3000. thanks a bunch STA.
Lee

 

[ChrisRoberts]

Chris, why do you think tubes are dearer than panels, tubes are easier to fit and in my opinion look unsightly on the roof, all this rubbish about tubes been more efficient is rubbish

Well because I can get a flat panel system for less money than a tube one. I have evac tubes on my roof and they work just fine.
I'm not sure if you'll ever see a return on the investment. But as someone said at least u can say that u're doing your bit.

 

[Biggles..]

I know tubes are only 5-10% more efficient so that isnt really a valid argument except that panel size can effectively be smaller using tubes but IMHO i think tubes look neater on the roof and slightly less obvious than large black panels.

 

[silverback]

But you can integrate panels into the roof, you can't do that with tubes, integrated panels look much neater then tubes ever can, anyway I can get evacuated panels, so the argument of tubes been more efficient goes out the window

 

[Gasguru]

The so called renewable energy products are bought by people who think they can make a difference to the planet.

In reality these products are often very expensive (generally unjustifiably overpriced), the payback time is either a considerable number of years or never and they are therefore generally purchased by the higher income bracket.

These very same people are the ones who are creating far more CO2 emissions by their use of larger cars, 4x4's, multiple holidays abroad and luxury lifestyles.

Silverback said
Tell me then gasguru, what is the payback time for a new boiler



Not a question of payback of a new boiler. If your old boilers stuffed you need hot water and heating and a boiler alone will provide that.

The industry suffered a downturn in new boiler sales last year. Not surprising really when most of my customers would rather repair their existing boiler at relatively low cost than spend a fortune on a new condensing boiler with an unknown lifespan that will never recover its cost.


We have the largest boiler market in the world and thats the only reason these renewable companies flock to our shores, many of their products are just not suited to out weather patterns and energy usage/generation.

Most companies manufacturing in the heating industry are highly unethical - their main goal is profits - reliable heating/hotwater and saving the planets resources are way down the list. Remember the only progress in this industry has been by the introduction of new legislation. There are very few manufacturers who genuinely produce well designed reliable products and I don't include Vaillant and Veismann in that list.

Since the property market has been screwed up by the buy to let mortgage we now have a significant percentage of our housing stock rented. These properties often have poor standards of insulation and poor quality heating system installations and since the landlords are not paying the energy bills there is no incentive to upgrade. Tenants will obviously not invest in insulation etc. and they tell me on a daily basis how exhobitant their bills are.

This is where the main energy wastage is and at the moment and nothing is being done about the problem. Solar panels etc won't make the slightest difference to this countries CO2 emissions while this situatiojn continues.

And in my area of London where there has been a large influx of West African tenants the heating season has already started (actually it was last week - still in August).


I hope Silverback, your PC isn't made in China, your mobile phone isn't made in China or the cheap cordless drill you may use doesn't come from China since you would be endorsing one of the worlds worst polluters.

 

[silverback]

I am not interested in China or the USA I am only interested in the country where I live.
It is a question of payback with a new boiler, as you say if it is stuffed you need to replace it as you need heating & hot water, but fossil fuel is running out, it is not a question of if, but when, so what do you propose we do when we have no gas to fire the boiler for heating and hot water

 

[Agile]

And in my area of London where there has been a large influx of West African tenants the heating season has already started (actually it was last week - still in August).

I always thought that the West Africans were in MY area of London ! Thats Willesden and Wembley!

Tony

 

[Gasguru]

How I love my job working in this weather with the heating on.

I repaired a Brittony Flexiflue water heater a couple of weeks ago (someone had bridged the TC connections on the Pcb with fusewire as the relay contacts were high resistance).

The tenants (newly arrived from Nigeria) had the storage heaters on full blast at 9 am. They may learn to put a jumper on when they get their first bill.

Bet the fat mans energy predictions didn't account for this.

At least the Poles can take a bit of cold weather.

 

[alexp.1]

the jobs I refer to him

My Baxi Barca. Can't get someone round for love nor money

 

[micky p]

The government are now bringing in this 10% renewable on new build in london and i think they are going to spread it across the country soon. The 10 % renewable on a house could well be Solar hot water. So i think solar will eventually become a must on most houses in the future just like condensing boilers are now. The government will force you down this path im afraid. By 2010 we have to conform to kyoto agreement by cutting our CO2 by x amount . So maybe the grants will get bigger as the time bears nearer.

To upgrade an existing house to solar then yeah the repayment may be a while but on a new build you need to purchase your heating equipment anyway so just throw another few grand at it and get some solar panels or even a heat pump which repay themselves in just 8 years.

i was working out the price of some viessmann panels and a unvented cylinder last night and you are looking at about £3500 + vat just for materials So where rogue traders were getting £3k from i just don't know. Maybe the poxy Alpha boilers setup could be done for that but not a right setup with unvented cylinder.


Bottom line is it is all about money after all our world is priceless.

 

[doitall]

I had a mail shot from edfenergy today saying how good Solar is

Good timing or what.

0800 015 8579, and they will explain how the system works and how your home could benifit froma solar water heating system.