Running 2.5mm externally around bends

[333rocky333]

you can put clips inside the trunking but those clips are again only held with plastic rawplugs.

I think the idea is you use concrete screws, that drill direct into the wall with NO rawlplugs

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think that unless "premature" is defined, or unless a specific, measurable, performance in a fire is required, the new regulation will be yet another example of nonsense which has no place in a document which is, essentially, an engineering specification one.

 

[JohnW2]

I think the idea is you use concrete screws, that drill direct into the wall with NO rawlplugs

Notes to the proposed new regulation do say that it precludes the use of non-metallic cable clips or non-metallic trunking as the "sole means of support" - and I would presume that applies regardless of how that trunking is attached. They go on to say that "Suitably spaced steel or copper clips, saddles or ties are examples that will meet the requirements of this regulation".

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Does it preclude the use of metallic clips which are fixed into plastic wall plugs?

 

[333rocky333]

I was refering more to what the makers recomend rather than the actual regs
www.d-line-it.com/pdf-library/en/D-Line_Safe-D_Clip_Fixing_Web.pdf
I notice you can get white metal saddles now for use with plastic conduit

 

[JohnW2]

I was refering more to what the makers recomend rather than the actual regs

Fair enough.

I notice you can get white metal saddles now for use with plastic conduit

Again, fair enough. As I said before, the proposed new reg says that it precludes non-metallic trunking as the sole support. However, I would imagine that if the trunking were attached by metal saddles (explicitly indicated as acceptable, provided they are 'suitably spaced') which would still support the wire if the trunking melted, I imagine that would, in itself, probably be OK.

However, the proposed regulation is silent as to how the metal saddles would have to be attached - so, per BAS's point, goodness knows whether fixing which involved a plastic (or even fibre) wall plug would be regarded as acceptable. The 'original', asbestos-based method of wall plugging might well be acceptable, fire-wise, but ...... !!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Notes to the proposed new regulation do say that it precludes the use of non-metallic cable clips or non-metallic trunking as the "sole means of support"

Hard to see how such a proscription can make sense unless they have determined what counts as "premature".

 

[ericmark]

I have seen where the regulations are interpreted by manufacturers and trade organisations in the past, be it the Blagdon system of wiring a garden without requiring registration (Wales or England before changes) or splitting into circuits where when 17th came out there was some clarification although still not that good so today we have at least 2 RCD's.

From the point of being alerted using my feet even from furthest point from door I can likely get out of the house in 2 minutes, however using the stair lift that time is much longer depending were parked it could take 8 minutes, and getting an amputee into the wheel chair then onto stair lift and then into wheel chair again likely moving to 15 minutes.

Remember this is after being alerted so fire may have been going for 5 minutes or more by then, considering a kitchen fire then after 20 minutes even the rafters may fail never mind wiring in plastic conduit or trunking, pictures of the Liverpool car park show even reinforced concrete did not stand the fire, I see "premature" will vary according to type of building, and we can only really consider a new building as we often have no idea of building materials used in old buildings.

So if I consider a new 3 bedroom house in Wales, then with the now required sprinkler system, how long before the plastic melts? I would guess quite a long time, and it is unlikely to fail premature, i.e. before everyone is out of the house or already dead due to smoke.

However if the trunking is stuck on with sticky back, then that's completely different, then the whole lot will likely fall down in minutes even with the sprinkler system now law in Wales. So

the clips inside do two things, then will hold the cables, but are also a large washer able to stop the trunking falling off the screw, so in a new Welsh house they are adequate, but in a shopping mall where it takes longer to get people out or a tower block, then we must consider the plastic rawplug, but until we get buildings classified, it is impossible for an electrician to know what building needs what, for domestic the scheme provider should tell their members how to classify the building and what is required. However for commercial buildings we have no registration and we don't need planning permission to alter wiring, so really cart before the horse, until we get some fire classification of buildings it's rather pointless.

Personally I think it is aimed to stop the use of sticky back trunking, unless there is something else it does fall off, even without a fire, as I said even decorators caulk is enough to stop it falling off again, as the sticky back loses grip the caulk gains grip and stops it falling and also makes it look better, not on an escape route of course, but when I tried to remove some it required a skim of plaster after as it had gripped so well.

What we will likely find is electricians using the clips inside, but IT guys not bothering, so then they will ban plastic trunking all together be it for plumber, electrician or IT guy.

 

[JohnW2]

So if I consider a new 3 bedroom house in Wales, then with the now required sprinkler system, how long before the plastic melts? I would guess quite a long time, and it is unlikely to fail premature, .... Personally I think it is aimed to stop the use of sticky back trunking, unless there is something else it does fall off, even without a fire ....

As I have said, the proposed new regulation says that it precludes use of non-metallic trunking as the sole means of cable support, and I take it that that remains the case regardless of how it is attached.

As I recently wrote, if metal saddles, spaced adequately closely, were put over the trunking (so that they would 'catch' the cables should the trunking melt), it sounds as if they would probably be acceptable (the trunking itself then essentially being an irrelevance in relation to support), give or take our uncertainties about requirements in terms of how the saddles were attached (would plastic wall plugs be acceptable?).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Buckle clips for the cables inside the trunking, which then is not the sole means of support. In fact, it's not any means of support.