Running cables before installing house alarm

[simonzx10]

Hi, I have a Texecom Veritas Excel alarm system.
This includes 6 PIRs, which will all be in separate rooms except the main room where there will be 2. One at each end of the room. There is also a remote key pad, a bell box outside, battery back up and also 3 smoke detectors which are to be wired into the system. I have all wiring on site. As the house is being renovated and there is no plaster on the walls I want to run all cables now.
What I need to know is what wire to run where?
Is it just a case of running all cables from each PIR etc back to the main box?
What about the 2 PIRs in the main room which I want to set up as 1 zone, all others will be separate zones.
What about the smoke detectors?
Once that's all done I can get the rest of the system installed and then programmed.

 

[Hoover]

okay you need standard alarm cable, I would use 6 or 8 core alarm cable.

The excel has 8 zones.

at default

zone1 is entry exit
zone 2 inhibited entry
zones 3-8 are guard, these can be changed.

you can change the zone types in engineering.

power wire in parallel to devices, alarm terminals in series, tampers in series.

You have the facility to use resistors on the excel panel, but given the amount of stuff you are putting on there I would just use the global tamper circuit.

the zones that are share with multipul devices you can either run the cables back to the panel or feed on to the next device, hoping on to the next device this should save on cable.

If possible I would have my cables in some trunking hidden behind the plaster, that way anything goes wrong you should be able to thread new cable without damaging the decor.

Keypad needs minimum of 4 cores
detectors minimum of 4 cores or 6 if using global tampers
Bellbox minimum 5 cores

For this reason I would use 8 core cable doesn't cost that much more, also you may want the detectors and smokes to indicate which one went of and you would need an extra cable for that also.

 

[EightyTwo]

Always have spare cores in your cable. e.g. 4 cores for contacts, 6 for detectors and 8 for the bell. If in doubt, run 8 core everywhere. (and I would NOT wire for global tamper - it's a complete pain trying to find an intermittant tamper fault. Use resistors.)

Yes, run a separate cable for each device back to the position of the main box ("control panel"). Leave about a metre of spare at the panel end and don't forget to mark each cable so that you know where it goes - you can write directly on white cable with a fine marker pen like a CD/DVD marker. Leave about half a metre spare at the other end.

I'd try to wire each device to its own zone. If you have two detectors on the same zone and one goes faulty, it's difficult to know which one to replace and, if you have a false alarm, you won't know which one was triggered.

Don't forget the door contacts. You could use concealed contacts and drill a 20mm diameter hole in you door frame and a 6mm hole to poke the cable through.

For the Smoke Detectors, you'll need to put a hole in the ceiling and rod the cable over to the nearest wall. If you haven't got rods, you could use trunking lid, curtain track or stiff wire like a coat hanger. Alternatively, you could go through the floor upstairs.

Don't forget the ancilliaries - PAB, keypad(s), speaker, bell and the mains supply for the panel.

 

[Hoover]

Resistors is all well and good

The panel hes got has 8 zones

Hes got more than 8 devices so hes gonna either get a different panel to do it seperatly or double up.

Using resistors with more than one device on a zone is okay( max 3 devices when using eol) .

If they start with the zones working normally withiut the resistors they know things are good, then turn the option on to use resistors and wire them in.

The panel doesnt have diagnostics as such so hes not going to know hes geting the right values.

Explaining and checking resistored systems without diagnostics in the panel or software or using a meter can make life diffcult hell there are many people that struggle with series and parrallel wiring never mind using resistors.

The new exceland r8 plus panels can use 22 and 10k or 2k2 47 but unless the lcd keypad has been updated by the manufacturer you can only select the different options in menu 30 with an led keypad

Theres not many detectors that have the 22 and 10k options built in asselectable.

Personally because of the setup i would start with something that can be checked without diagnostic equipment.

The tampers being globalised isnt good but worst case he has tampers that are related to the devices, puts a link on global tamper to prove its a device in tamper, then unfortunatley has to work through the wiring.

Hes got 10 or 11 devices so even with resistors he is still going to check a couple of devices on some zones.

Keep it simple woth the limits they are working with and then increase.

If he had one device per zone i would go straight for the resistors as its simple enough multipul devicces on zones witj resistors and no diagnostics can be hard?

 

[Hoover]

Hes got at least 9 devices sorry i am unsure exactly how many

4 pirs seperate
2 pirs same zone
3 smokes
Didnt see a door contact mentioned

If no door contact (not recommended but not a problem as default exit is timed)

Then i would have the purs seperate zones

Depending on his smokes locations i would either all on same zone and use the latch facility from sw+ to the detectors so you know which one was activated.

 

[simonzx10]

Many thanks for your replies. And there was me thinking it was straight forward.

Zones:
All together there is 7 area's to have items wired too.

Bedroom 1...1x PIR
Bedroom 2...1x PIR
Bathroom.....1x PIR
Kitchen........1x PIR + 1x Heat/Optical Sensor
Stairs/Hall.... 1x PIR bottom of stairs facing front door. + 2x Heat/Optical sensors (top and bottom of stairs.)
Living Room...2x PIRs (1 at each end of room)
Understairs... 1x Heat/Optical Sensor

Didn't really want to be drilling my brand new composite door for a sensor and thought the PIR would suffice. That's the same in the kitchen also.

The main unit is the Veritas Excel with remote LCD keypad.
The optical/heat sensors are Texecom Exodus 4w sensors.
PIRs are Veritas Reflex.
Bell box is Veritas with battery back up.

I do have 8 core flex. Also, 3 core and earth which I was told was needed for the heat/optical detectors.

I PRESUME THAT ALL THIS CAN BE LINKED TO THE BOX AS I JUST TOLD THE SELLER WHAT I REQUIRED SO PRESUME IT IS ALL COMPATIBLE.

I think I will be getting some one in to actually finish the connections and program it all but whilst the house is all open with no ceilings etc I just want to run the cables.

 

[sparkymarka]

3 core and earth ? Not for texecom smoke detectors standard alarm cable... Put all pirs on separate zones eol and series up all the smokes as they are latching devices....

 

[simonzx10]

Hes got more than 8 devices so hes gonna either get a different panel to do it seperatly or double up.

So do I need a different main unit?

 

[Hoover]

I wouldn't have a detector in the bathroom.

Optical heat sensor is not suitable for the kitchen. (you'll get activations when the dinner gets burnt or you burn your toast).
a RR or FT64 should be more suitable, stick with the 4W's.

http://www.texe.com/uk/products/range/fire-detectors/


Running the cables would be fine in 8 core other panels would be able to use them.

PM if you want to go through this in more detail to discuss your options.

 

[RF Lighting]

Don't forget that if you're using the alarm as your smoke alarm system, you need to make sure you've got a sounder within 3M of every bedroom door so if the system is activated during the night, it will wake you from a heavy sleep through a closed door.

 

[Hoover]

good call, add a base sounder to the smoke would make it easier

 

[simonzx10]

The detectors are optical and heat multisensory.. the first one in the link above. I thought these were ideal for the kitchen???

And now I need a sounder? I should only need one as the 2nd bedroom wont be a bedroom, just a study. I wondered where the noise was going to come from.
Originally I was having smoke detectors linked up but separate to the house alarm. I just happened to see this system set up on a display board up the electrical shop and thought it was the nuts.
Wont the smoke detectors set the house alarm off ??? Its right outside the bedroom window.

Now the lad I work with is the electrical dude, he's going to set it up for me. Reckons to ditch the PIR in the hall and have a door sensor instead. Also, he reckons its a waste of time connecting the anti-tamper. His reason sounded logical, for them to be tampered with means people are in the house already. Seems logical.

 

[Hoover]

the external will go off, but if your windows are good and shut you may not hear the external alarm when your sleeping as it wont be so loud.

Don't want you to worry but the only way you are going to know is to test it.

the door contact is better than a pir for the entry exit as a rule but wouldn't have made much difference as the system is timed set at default.

did you get a demonstration of the display?

the tampers are good and its better to use resistors so you know which zone the tampers are on, but its not really essential if its a bells only system.

I am prepared to go into depth on this if you pm me

 

[mattylad]

Anti tamper is not just for anti tamper.

Its also useful for anti "oops I accidentally cut/broke a cable while doing other DIY"

 

[Hoover]

Not saying its not useful.

but if you cut the cables to a device, when you come to set the system the device will show as being active if its damaged the alarm pair.

if the damage has shorted out the power, the aux power supplies all the pirs and all the pirs would show active when the system is set, or a walk test started and the door contact would show as not being activate until it has been physically activated.

What they wont see is the system alerting for a tamper associated with the units not having the covers on properly because there wont be one associated with the zones at all, this could affect the ability of the detector to detect properly.

I have to admit I do not look at my detectors closely enough day to day to see if they have been tampered with, but ll mine have resistors except the parts that are wireless and even they report tampers.

I wouldn't get rid of the tampers full stop, its a good indication with the system unset or set that somethings not right and you get a warning that audible warning that somethings not right, whether tampered with human hand or vermin.

End of the day its his system, asked for advice upto him how he wants to deal with it.

obviously if hes using resistors and cuts the alarm pair he will get a tamper, just before someone points that out and he would know which zone it was on.