Rusted old backboiler, safe to remove?

[pja123]

I've just ripped out the old fireplace in my front room only to discover what i think is the original back boiler. I'd like to know if it's safe to remove it, and whether is it reasonably easy to do.

I've stuck my hand up the chimney opening/breast and i can't feel a lintel which concerns me, the house is heated by a reasonably newish combi boiler, turning that on and leaving the radiators to warm up suggests its been cut off from the heating system at some point as it remains cold. I can't find where it's been disconnected though, i've had a few floorboards up so i assuming the pipes must be buried deep in the chimney.

I would like a coal fire in there, but if they are generally a pain/expensive to remove i'd settle with bricking it up and sticking a new gas fire in front of it.

Just wondering if this a fairly straighforward job for DIY donkey worker like me

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• pja123
• 4 Jan 2010
• 1

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• pja123
• 4 Jan 2010
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Tidied up a bit now, silt and dust removed in the picture below - would unscrewing the two bolts split the boiler into two segments like a nut shell resulting in a flood of water? Not sure where to start really.

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• pja123
• 4 Jan 2010
• 1

 

[r896neo]

The hardest part is trying to carry it outside! Removing them can be a bit of bother but not too bad usually.

It looks as if some of yours has already been dismantelled/removed. They are usually built in to a certain degree and so much of the material around it will be infill. You definately need to make sure there is a lintel or arch before removing too much though.

As for the pipe work it is more than likely just cut off and plastered over at the side of the brest or going up one side in a stud.

 

[pja123]

Thanks Neo, makes sense now you mention the infill i've already started chipping away at the plaster to the sides.

How integral are these boilers, would removing it completely effect the stability of the chimney breast? Is the backend quite extensive, is this just the front that i can see in the pictures?

Incidentally this chimney is on the detached side of the house (standalone wall) and looks a lot narrower than the chimney breast in the living room (ajoing neighbour/party wall) which appears to have a lot more depth as well as being wider.

 

[r896neo]

In most cases they are not integral at all as they were retrofitted and not original. They can appear built in but usually its just fill. What age is your house?

It is possible but unlikely that this flue was built specifically for the boiler but regardless of that as i mentioned your first job is too hack off the plaster and check there is a lintel/arch support. Then keep removing the plaster around the opening and it will soon become clear what is original what is not.

 

[TicklyT]

Old back boilers left in situ can be potential bombs if a new fire is fitted in front of them.
The boiler will probably have been left full of water, corroding, and eventually blocking the circulation pipes, then the new fire warms it up.

Once it gets above boiling point, there's nowhere for the steam to go. The pressure just builds up until the boiler starts travelling in several different directions at the same time

It looks like the two nuts would release the mud hole cover in between them. The cover probably drops into the boiler, turns 90 degrees and lifts out, probably followed very closely by a couple of gallons of very rusty water and sludge.

 

[pja123]

The house was built in 1961 according to the deeds, i can't visually see a lintel so i guess i'll have no choice but too hack off the plaster on the chimney breast in the hope of exposing one.

Good thing i removed the old gas fire in front of it, god knows how long that had been sitting there cooking up a potential bomb lol!!

I'll get a decent amount of sheeting down in preparation for the water, amazing to think it's still got a couple of gallons of rusted water inside it after all this time, i bet it'll stink like hell when i open it too!! Nothing like getting your hands dirty....love it!!!!

 

[TicklyT]

For some reading on the matter:-
http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2009/coisw61109.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/services/localgovernment/boilers.htm

I would not be surprised if the original pipework to the boiler ran straight through the side of the chimney breast, but has been cut off flush and plastered over.

 

[Nige F]

" self employed " hired by the council...what happened to the Direct Labour Organisation They used to have Unions and H+s updates etc.

 

[pja123]

Directly inside and above the boiler is a slab approximately 1 ft across (throat?), just wide enough to cover the gap, i presume this can't be the lintel, i've hacked away a trace 2 ft above and no sign of a lintel yet, how far up would the lintel normally be? Presumably before the chimney starts to funnel/taper off as it goes up into the bedrooms and up again into the roof void?

I don't know how i missed it (feel a bit silly ), but you were spot on about the boxed off partition on the side of the breast where the pipes exit out.

It's kind of hard to explain put the pipe work for the boiler runs up the side of chimeny behind a layer of bricks - judging by this i'm starting to think the boiler was put in before the floorboards were put down, and was part of the original build - upstairs directly above where the pipes come up, the floorboards look untouched and show no signs of tamper (tongues and grooves still interlocking).

I reckon it's going to be a right bugger to get out, i had a quick go with my angle grinder thinking i could carve it up slowly in situ, but that'll take for ever. Is there a more suitable tool for slicing up in situ, can you hire plasma wielders lol

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• pja123
• 8 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 8 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 8 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 8 Jan 2010
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[r896neo]

It is feasible that the throat you describe is part of a more modern throat and flue set. If this is the case the brest will not have a large opening filled in with bricks at a later date, it will have been built around the throat which acts as the linte3l because it covers such a small opening.

Can you find if the throat/lintel is bearing on the sides and if so how much.
The way to be sure whats happening is remove all the plaster level with and below the top of the opening then you can see if there is a change in materials or obvious fill section.

As for removing the boiler some sections will be cast and will crack if hit hard with a small sledge. Starting a bit of a cut with a grinder then a crack will break some sections. Wear googles though! and check the lintel situation out first.

 

[pja123]

Thanks again for the help - i've removed a lot of the render/plaster off the chimney breast and i'm starting to think there isn't a lintel judging by the pictures below. Theres an obvious rebuilding of the brick work above the neck (in triangular fashion) but whether it lies behind there i wouldn't be able to determine.

What also got me thinking was how they got the boiler in there in the first place without disturbing the lower/bottom portion of bricks on the left hand side, where the the pipe runs out and then up the side of the chimney? The pipes exiting the boiler sit in the gap between the front/facing layer of bricks and a back row of bricks which makes me wonder if it was put in place first (or at least the pipe work) and then the finishing bricks laid afterwards, sealing the pipe in??

I'm determined to get the thing out now, i was hacking off perfectly good plaster, thinking no lintel...right one more row higher....then..higher yet again - i should have left it on there, oh well lol!

The grey mortar along the top of the gap, is stuck partly to an 3/4" inch thick slab (bridging the gap), which itself then has another row of half bricks and loose odds and sods packed in on top also packed in with the mortar. I didn't want to hack that off as i thought it might loosen the small neck lintel.

I think i'd need to remove some of the bricks on the left hand side of the boiler near the base at least giving me access to the pipes so i can cut the boiler free, the question is though, can i do this without jepordizing the integrity of the chimney. I'd very much appreciate suggestions on how to proceed from here.

I also managed to open the boiler, unscrewing the bolts on the top, and you guys weren't wrong - it was full of water!! First task tomorrow, drill a couple of hole through it and drain the beast off!!

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• pja123
• 9 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 9 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 9 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 9 Jan 2010
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[pja123]

Well after much standing about twiddling my thumbs, pondering on what i should do next, i decided action must be taken - so last night, very slowly and meticulously i knocked away the mortar and bricks to the side of the boiler, in effect opening up the fireplace to expose the piping so i can cut the boiler free (which is my job tonight).

I've decided that i'm going to have a go at replacing the small, fragile neck with a wider lintel at the weekend, i've been doing some reading up and i've hired a couple of props and strongboys (£20 all in) to aid with the task.

 

[pja123]

Been a busy weekend, the lintel is in, back boiler removed along with flo and return pipes both upstairs and down. Took the liberty to replace some floorboards along the journey. Thanks everyone for the help.

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• pja123
• 17 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 17 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 17 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 17 Jan 2010
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• pja123
• 17 Jan 2010
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[r896neo]

good man, glad you got sorted!

 

[onabudget]

hi could you advise please on the size, length etc and where you got the lintel from? is it concrete and how much did it cost. I'm trying to do the same thing. Also at what height you fitted the lintel.

Did you use the strongboys and acrow? I was thinking about using the same but a size 0 is just too large, did you have to rebuild above or did you keep it in place ?

Thanks