Indeed.
Maybe. The definition of 'point' is clearly open to some interpretation, but what you say sounds sensible.
Kind Regards, John
Safe zones and fixed appliances
- Thread starter jabuzzard
- Start date
Kind Regards, John
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Also, I have since thought that the cable could run up to within 150mm. from the ceiling and then across to the chimney and then hang down.
I do think it poor workmanship not to have a connector plate as it is far from ideal (and really awkward) to have to disconnect the internal wiring of the hood in order to remove it.
I do think it poor workmanship not to have a connector plate as it is far from ideal (and really awkward) to have to disconnect the internal wiring of the hood in order to remove it.
Does the regulations not state "where the cables are connected to a point, accessory or switch gear?"
So it is not a matter of installing a back box and accessory plate to form a safe zone. The cable must be connected to this point.
So it is not a matter of installing a back box and accessory plate to form a safe zone. The cable must be connected to this point.
And I would assume connected, means electrically connected?
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Although we are told/advised "never to assume", that does sound like a very reasonable assumption - but, as you realise, the regs don't actually state that!
Kind Regards, John
Well TBH, I don't take to assuming too lightly!
But say that in this instance an accessory plate was installed to make a bogus safe zone and was not connected to cable (as advised by some) and one day in the near future, along came a curious person, opened up the accessory plate, then came to the conclusion it was redundant and removed it.
Then introducing a live cable in an unsafe zone!
But say that in this instance an accessory plate was installed to make a bogus safe zone and was not connected to cable (as advised by some) and one day in the near future, along came a curious person, opened up the accessory plate, then came to the conclusion it was redundant and removed it.
Then introducing a live cable in an unsafe zone!
Could make it tricky to remove by running the cable through the back box.
What difference does it make if you disconnect it from a switched spur and pull it out the cable out the conduit, or remove a connection plate from behind the chimney covering to disconnect it? I never bury a cable in the wall unless it is in conduit of some description.
One could then get into a whole debate about the connector plate being a screwed cable joint in an inaccessible location...
That is why I said not connected and bogus safe zone!
I don't think BAS was talking about connecting anything - merely running the (intact) cable in one hole of the back box and out of another - that would present a reasonable challenge for anyone trying to remove the back box - cautious use of a hacksaw would be the only way - and even that very difficult if there was little slack in the cable!!
Kind Regards, John
Well, apart from being obvious, how many appliances do you come across where it is necessary to disconnect at a remote accessory and then pull cable out of conduit (with a right angle bend) to remove it.
Then feed the cable through the conduit to reconnect it.
You could but you would be wrong.
If it were inaccessible how would you connect it in the first place?
I come across a fair few where you have to remove plugs, and feed through things so I see this a no worse and in reality a lot easier. It's a 12mm internal diameter smooth bore flexible conduit which will be just over a metre in length. The flex will push down it as easy as pie. I can't see that one would be removing it from the wall unless it is broken anyway.
Junction boxes with screwed terminals under floor boards are considered inaccessible. So if lifting the carpet at top of my stairs and lifting up a floor board to access a junction box is not allowed, then how is climbing on kitchen work surface/hob to remove a fixed appliance on the wall to get at screwed terminals not considered inaccessible?
A flex outlet behind the false chimney would be no less accessible than the fan and motor assembly.
And unless you were trying to access the works of the hood for some reason, why on earth would you want to access the flex outlet?
And unless you were trying to access the works of the hood for some reason, why on earth would you want to access the flex outlet?
John I understood what was being said, but that was not the scenario that I was suggesting. For clarity, I was making a point that had not been quoted from the requirements (if it had, I apologise, missed it) in the thread, regarding the cable being connected to the accessories of the safe zone, rather than the cable just be routed within the zone of a non-connected accessory.
On your point, I do agree that it would be a challenge to remove a cable that had been routed continuously though a fixed back box, but saying that there will be people amongst us, that would take upon that challenge with ignorance and excitement.
Fair enough and,in turn, I did understand the point you were making - and I did say that you were making an assumption (albeit a seemingly pretty reasonable one) in assuming that the "connected" which the regs mention in terms of creating safe zones necessarily meant electrically connected.
True. I suppose that there are people amongst us that would try almost anything 'with ignorance and excitement'! One could attempt to deter them my leaving a note within the back box telling them not to. Of course, one could make this part of the discussion go away by cutting the cable within the box and 'connecting' the cut ends with a connector block - but it would seem a pity to introduce a point of potential failure solely because of the regs.
Opinions will obviously vary, but I personally am inclined to the view that the spirit of the regs would be satisfied by a continuous cable going through a back box with a blank plate. Anyone who understands safe zones would respect the zones created by the plate (if in doubt, after removing the plate and seeing the cable), and I think that the risk of people taking up your challenge (as above) is pretty remote - and probably no more likely than their changing a socket to a connector block and then 'wallpapering over' the back box (which I have certainly seen!).
Kind Regards, John
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