Sales Of Goods Act
- Thread starter HelpDIY
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that is part of the spec
brand A
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G
Goldberg
Which act, and which part of the act do you believe the seller has breached?
Which act?
Have you been shown a written specification for either product?
This is what they should be going by
http://consumerline.org/legislation/?cat=Consumer+Law&item=Sale+of+Goods
http://consumerline.org/legislation/?cat=Consumer+Law&item=Sale+of+Goods
SOGA is irrelevant to items which are to all intents similar products of equal performance
Its pure contract law which will determine what item must be supplied .... the buyer must explicitly specify his exact requirements, and only if an item supplied differs from this will the buyer have a claim for breach of contract.
Its pure contract law which will determine what item must be supplied .... the buyer must explicitly specify his exact requirements, and only if an item supplied differs from this will the buyer have a claim for breach of contract.
Dear all, thank you for your comments. I thought I better make it clearer by giving you the some wordings in the contract. We had our windows and doors supplied and installed by Fineline (based in Sevenoaks, Kent) whose parent compnay is A&B Glass Group. The total contract was £22k
An extract of the contract says"All units to be upgraded to Type A energy rating with one sheet in Pilkington Optitherm soft coated glass, one sheet in Pilkington Optiwhite glass....". We thought we would have Pilkington trademark on our glass because we had Pilkington glass before and were very happy with their quality/performance. We never asked for our window be upgraded and/or asked anything else but A-rated windows with Pilkington glass in our meetings with the saleman and the same with other companies
When the windows and doors arrived at our home we noticed our glass carried another company name/trademark and NOT Pilkington and noticed the printing on the lables stuck on the windows say "Clear Soft Coat Low Iron (Optiwhite). We wrote to them and said they are in breach of the contract according to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 because the windows and doors they have supplied as part of the service are not as described in their contract. The company engaged a consulting company to deal with our dispute. The Consultant replied to us and said their client (Fineline) did not in breach of the contract because
1) the Sale of Goods Act 1979 with regard to the sale of goods by descripton. They said because Pilkington and their supplier source the glass from the same manufacturer Saint Grobain (but Pilkington rebrand it "Pilkington") therefore our glass is of the same specification/composition
2) there was reference on that quotations (ie the above quote in italic). The Consultant also said that Reference was made in the quotation to a leaflet and attached now again for our ease of reference. The consultant got it wrong, we read the contract there was no reference made to the said leaflet.
My dispute with Fineline is had we been told that our glass was from SaintGobain, we would not have entered the contract with Fineline because we wanted Pilkington label (as in my previous example M&Spencer label). By using Pilkington brand has trapped us in entering the contract with them without knowing it was going to be another brand. Otherwise we would have gone for another company who offered us a few thousand pounds cheapers. Isn't a good business conduct that companies should not mislead their customers?
Your comments are most appreciated & thanks
An extract of the contract says"All units to be upgraded to Type A energy rating with one sheet in Pilkington Optitherm soft coated glass, one sheet in Pilkington Optiwhite glass....". We thought we would have Pilkington trademark on our glass because we had Pilkington glass before and were very happy with their quality/performance. We never asked for our window be upgraded and/or asked anything else but A-rated windows with Pilkington glass in our meetings with the saleman and the same with other companies
When the windows and doors arrived at our home we noticed our glass carried another company name/trademark and NOT Pilkington and noticed the printing on the lables stuck on the windows say "Clear Soft Coat Low Iron (Optiwhite). We wrote to them and said they are in breach of the contract according to the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 because the windows and doors they have supplied as part of the service are not as described in their contract. The company engaged a consulting company to deal with our dispute. The Consultant replied to us and said their client (Fineline) did not in breach of the contract because
1) the Sale of Goods Act 1979 with regard to the sale of goods by descripton. They said because Pilkington and their supplier source the glass from the same manufacturer Saint Grobain (but Pilkington rebrand it "Pilkington") therefore our glass is of the same specification/composition
2) there was reference on that quotations (ie the above quote in italic). The Consultant also said that Reference was made in the quotation to a leaflet and attached now again for our ease of reference. The consultant got it wrong, we read the contract there was no reference made to the said leaflet.
My dispute with Fineline is had we been told that our glass was from SaintGobain, we would not have entered the contract with Fineline because we wanted Pilkington label (as in my previous example M&Spencer label). By using Pilkington brand has trapped us in entering the contract with them without knowing it was going to be another brand. Otherwise we would have gone for another company who offered us a few thousand pounds cheapers. Isn't a good business conduct that companies should not mislead their customers?
Your comments are most appreciated & thanks
law of contract is what you should be depending on, not Sale of Goods.
I have no way of estimating the impartiality of the consultants chosen by your supplier. I doubt they would have chosen an arbitrator known to be overly sympathetic to the client.
I suggest you consult CAB or a local solicitor. if your household insurance includes legal disputes cover inform them too. I suspect you may end up with a partial rebate rather than new windows or a full refund.
You will have to show them the entire contract, not just selected parts. It may well specify how disputes are to be handled, but you also have recourse to Unfair Contract Terms protection which can strike them out.
I recommend you get some copies so that you do not lose the original when you give it to someone to look at. For a modest charge your solicitor will make certified true copies with his stamp and signature which will have the same status as your original.
it might be an open and shut case in the right hands; goods supplied do not conform to specification..
Asking advice down the pub is approximately equivalent to asking on this forum, so I think you should move up a step or two. It is a long time since I studied Commercial Law so you need a practicing professional.
I have no way of estimating the impartiality of the consultants chosen by your supplier. I doubt they would have chosen an arbitrator known to be overly sympathetic to the client.
I suggest you consult CAB or a local solicitor. if your household insurance includes legal disputes cover inform them too. I suspect you may end up with a partial rebate rather than new windows or a full refund.
You will have to show them the entire contract, not just selected parts. It may well specify how disputes are to be handled, but you also have recourse to Unfair Contract Terms protection which can strike them out.
I recommend you get some copies so that you do not lose the original when you give it to someone to look at. For a modest charge your solicitor will make certified true copies with his stamp and signature which will have the same status as your original.
it might be an open and shut case in the right hands; goods supplied do not conform to specification..
Asking advice down the pub is approximately equivalent to asking on this forum, so I think you should move up a step or two. It is a long time since I studied Commercial Law so you need a practicing professional.
If the contract states in writing that the glass will be branded "Pilkington" and they have not supplied glass which is so branded, they are in breach of contract. It does not matter who supplies the glass to Pilkington or that the same glass can be purchased with other brand labels.
The law says that goods must be:
Of satisfactory quality
Fit for their purpose
As described
Phone Consumer Direct, it's the government funded central advice service, on 08454 040506.
The law says that goods must be:
Of satisfactory quality
Fit for their purpose
As described
Phone Consumer Direct, it's the government funded central advice service, on 08454 040506.
there consultant could be the tea boy on his day off
consultant is a fairly meaningless word in this [and most ]cases
a name used to be backed by relivent qualifications no so much now
and even if they are fully qualified as john d says are they impartial
as said before ithe glass may come out the same factory but can be off completly different quality
if they are saying the glass is identical then get them to prove it and get a letter from pilklington to confirm it
consultant is a fairly meaningless word in this [and most ]cases
a name used to be backed by relivent qualifications no so much now
and even if they are fully qualified as john d says are they impartial
as said before ithe glass may come out the same factory but can be off completly different quality
if they are saying the glass is identical then get them to prove it and get a letter from pilklington to confirm it
Two things
Optiwhite is a trademark (of Pilkington). If the lables stated that the glass was Optiwhite, then the glass is Optiwhite, or the supplier is breaching trademark issues too.
Pilkington, and St Gobain share resourses and also have similar products with similar performance. Bar the name, you may have 'Pilkington' glass
You would have a difficult time in proving that Pilkington is a "better" product or even a better name than St Gobain, when both companies are equal leading suppliers. So the contract has not been diminished on this basis.
If you have recieved the type of glass you ordered (albeit without the Pilkington name) then you would need significant wording in the contract specifying that 'Pilkington' was a specific requirement.
Your best hope is negotiating with the supplier on good will, becasue I can't see how you would prove otherwise that the contract is breached and/or you are worse off because of any breach
Optiwhite is a trademark (of Pilkington). If the lables stated that the glass was Optiwhite, then the glass is Optiwhite, or the supplier is breaching trademark issues too.
Pilkington, and St Gobain share resourses and also have similar products with similar performance. Bar the name, you may have 'Pilkington' glass
You would have a difficult time in proving that Pilkington is a "better" product or even a better name than St Gobain, when both companies are equal leading suppliers. So the contract has not been diminished on this basis.
If you have recieved the type of glass you ordered (albeit without the Pilkington name) then you would need significant wording in the contract specifying that 'Pilkington' was a specific requirement.
Your best hope is negotiating with the supplier on good will, becasue I can't see how you would prove otherwise that the contract is breached and/or you are worse off because of any breach
Saint Gobain? Pilkington? Not a lot in it to be honest.
Are you just being a brand snob? The windows will do there job just the same and just as well. As mentioned, you could write to Pilkington and Saint Gobain to confirm the performance of the glass.
The most you are likely to get out of the company is some kind of gesture of goodwill. or do you really expect them to re-order all the glass again from Pilkington?
Are you just being a brand snob? The windows will do there job just the same and just as well. As mentioned, you could write to Pilkington and Saint Gobain to confirm the performance of the glass.
The most you are likely to get out of the company is some kind of gesture of goodwill. or do you really expect them to re-order all the glass again from Pilkington?
Both Optithem and Optiwhite are trademarks owned by Pilkington.
Are you talking about a label stuck on the glass or something etched into the glass? Genuine Pilkington glass has their logo etched into the glass and the British Standard Kite Mark
If the company paid the consultant he is not independent. Have you asked what qualifications and expertise the consultant has?
Oh yes they did. It would be no different than if I asked my garage to fit Michelin Tyres and they fitted Joe Bloggs remoulds and then argued there was no difference as the rubber all came from the same trees.
I would want proof that Pilkington source their glass from St Gobain. You could try phoning Pilkington, 01744 692000, and asking their advice. If someone is passing off another product as a Pilkington product they will be very interested to learn about it.
G
Goldberg
In that case you have Pilkington glass, so why do you think that you don't?
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