Salus RT510RF to Tado system

[RandomGrinch]

Green/yellow with brown sleeve to CH/ON terminal 4
Brown to L
Blue to N
Following this View attachment 337372 diagram that you posted. Or as @RandomGrinch has said swap to 1 system link, and use link wire.

Why I suggested going potential free, is I didn't know if there would be any further configuration changes, within the Tado app.
It's possible that Hot Water controls could be hidden in "Potential Free" mode, but viewable in "Switched Live".
For the addition of the extra wire that the OP already had, it seemed a sensible suggestion to avoid confusion.

 

[ericmark]

Note, that under current regs, it is no longer acceptable to oversleeve the earth wire for use as a switched live - however, for a simple thermostat swap, you should be ok!

It has not been permitted to have a fixed device wired without having an earth available for a lot longer, I know 1966 was when lighting was no longer permitted to not have an earth supplied, so some time before that when earth not supplied for other fixed units. However I agree likely OK in this instant to continue breaking the rules.

Why I suggested going potential free, is I didn't know if there would be any further configuration changes, within the Tado app.
It's possible that Hot Water controls could be hidden in "Potential Free" mode, but viewable in "Switched Live".
For the addition of the extra wire that the OP already had, it seemed a sensible suggestion to avoid confusion.

I agree I rejected Tado simply due to lack of info. I did look at the boiler instructions and did a "Find in page" for OpenTherm which got a hit, so it seems the Tado could be configured to work with OpenTherm, however considered this may just confuse so did not say anything about it, as to be frank not sure what links if any would need replacing in the boiler if wired to use OpenTherm. Or if the cover can be removed by some one not gas safe.

 

[windsortg]

thanks @RandomGrinch and @ericmark

I was following the Tado instructions for replacing a Salus RT510 Receiver and it mentions to wire:

Green/yellow with brown sleeve to CH/ON terminal 4
Brown to L
Blue to N

Jumper setting to 2 (which is what I believe @ericmark suggests).

I have attached photos from the Tado instructions on the app - proposed wiring suggested by Tado and the jumper suggested setting.

Should I follow the instructions as suggested by Tado which I believe/hope is for connecting Tado to a combi boiler and have it on jumper setting 2? Also, can I ignore the need for attaching the small Brown link wire between L and terminal 1 ?

Stupid question but I asssume I follow the Tado instructions to install the devices at my son's home (i.e. pairing the extension kit with the Smart thermostat) and then follow the moving of devices to a new home instructions ?

 

[RandomGrinch]

Should I follow the instructions as suggested by Tado

You can use whichever suggestion you like - they will both work in exactly the same way.

 

[Notch7]

I agree I rejected Tado simply due to lack of info. I did look at the boiler instructions and did a "Find in page" for OpenTherm which got a hit, so it seems the Tado could be configured to work with OpenTherm,

I believe the benefit of Tadi is speaks bus languages

however Tado removed the modulating controls from the UK market,.... but have since reintroduced it

not sure whether thats only available direct from Tado

 

[ericmark]

I do see how there is a huge difference between modulating and non modulating boilers, same with heat pumps with on/off and inverter speed control. In the pre-modulation days thermostats used the mark/space ratio to stop over shoot, however this will cause many boilers to auto return to flat out setting and it messes up controlling how much to modulate a boiler. I had this problem with my mothers house, with a Worcester Bosch boiler which did modulate but had no way to interface with the modulation control.

I know my own boiler (oil) does not modulate, and looking at the graph from the Kasa TRV one can see the result of on/off control. We have seen the two graphs for years, but actually seeing the report from the TRV makes one realise this is not theory but actually happens in practice.

However the question is with a modulating boiler, what does what? If one has a modulating boiler and no wall thermostat the TRV's can be set to maintain each room at the set temperature, I did this with my mothers house, the report from the TRV's was used to set the lock shield valves, if the current exceeds the target close the TRV a tad, and of course the reverse. What I found was radiators did not get hot and cold, but some where between the two limits maintaining the room temperature as set. The TRV heads did not link to main thermostat.

But there is a problem, as summer arrives the boiler reaches a point where it can't turn down any more, so it starts to cycle, and although the anti-cycle software will reduce how often it cycles, unless some device turns off the boiler it would continue to cycle all summer.

So we need some thing so on warm days the boiler is turned off. So if we have a down stairs room (heat raises) which is normally kept at say 17ºC by the TRV, then if the room reaches 18ºC it must be a warm day so heating can turn off. That is of course as long as no alternative heating in the room.

However having tried to set that up, it's not quite that easy. My hall now is showing 18ºC at the TRV and 19.5ºC at the wall thermostat, this is due to heights and distance from radiator/door etc. So would need to have TRV at 17ºC and wall thermostat 18.5ºC or higher, it does work, did it with mothers house, but I was slowly adjusting the lock shield valves through the winter in the first year fitted for it to work nearly A1 in the second year.

Linked TRV's and ebus control makes the setting up so much easier. We see the diagrams showing why the thermostat should be on the opposite wall in line with radiator to work and be at a height that is easy seen and adjusted, but really what we want is a hub collecting info from each TRV and using it to tell the boiler what to do. Also add some temperature sensor to the hub, so should signal between the TRV and hub be lost, it does not go daft.

But in the main heating is controlled by near enough engineering, my own home is no exception, I need to add a second thermostat to hold the boiler on if living room cool, but still need a thermostat in hall for when the open fire is used, or even the sun shines through the windows warming the room, as otherwise rest of house would cool down.

But also I look at cost, spending £500 on controls is not going to save £500 in first year, likely only £50 saving, so 10 years pay back time. That would make me 83, and question is at 83 will I still live in this home?

 

[Mister Banks]

I do see how there is a huge difference between modulating and non modulating boilers, same with heat pumps with on/off and inverter speed control. In the pre-modulation days thermostats used the mark/space ratio to stop over shoot, however this will cause many boilers to auto return to flat out setting and it messes up controlling how much to modulate a boiler. I had this problem with my mothers house, with a Worcester Bosch boiler which did modulate but had no way to interface with the modulation control.

I know my own boiler (oil) does not modulate, and looking at the graph from the Kasa TRV View attachment 337387 one can see the result of on/off control. We have seen the two graphs for years, View attachment 337388View attachment 337389 but actually seeing the report from the TRV makes one realise this is not theory but actually happens in practice.

However the question is with a modulating boiler, what does what? If one has a modulating boiler and no wall thermostat the TRV's can be set to maintain each room at the set temperature, I did this with my mothers house, the report from the TRV's View attachment 337390 was used to set the lock shield valves, if the current exceeds the target close the TRV a tad, and of course the reverse. What I found was radiators did not get hot and cold, but some where between the two limits maintaining the room temperature as set. The TRV heads did not link to main thermostat.

But there is a problem, as summer arrives the boiler reaches a point where it can't turn down any more, so it starts to cycle, and although the anti-cycle software will reduce how often it cycles, unless some device turns off the boiler it would continue to cycle all summer.

So we need some thing so on warm days the boiler is turned off. So if we have a down stairs room (heat raises) which is normally kept at say 17ºC by the TRV, then if the room reaches 18ºC it must be a warm day so heating can turn off. That is of course as long as no alternative heating in the room.

However having tried to set that up, it's not quite that easy. My hall now is showing 18ºC at the TRV and 19.5ºC at the wall thermostat, this is due to heights and distance from radiator/door etc. So would need to have TRV at 17ºC and wall thermostat 18.5ºC or higher, it does work, did it with mothers house, but I was slowly adjusting the lock shield valves through the winter in the first year fitted for it to work nearly A1 in the second year.

Linked TRV's and ebus control makes the setting up so much easier. We see the diagrams View attachment 337407 showing why the thermostat should be on the opposite wall in line with radiator to work and be at a height that is easy seen and adjusted, but really what we want is a hub collecting info from each TRV and using it to tell the boiler what to do. Also add some temperature sensor to the hub, so should signal between the TRV and hub be lost, it does not go daft.

But in the main heating is controlled by near enough engineering, my own home is no exception, I need to add a second thermostat to hold the boiler on if living room cool, but still need a thermostat in hall for when the open fire is used, or even the sun shines through the windows warming the room, as otherwise rest of house would cool down.

But also I look at cost, spending £500 on controls is not going to save £500 in first year, likely only £50 saving, so 10 years pay back time. That would make me 83, and question is at 83 will I still live in this home?

The trouble with smart TRV’s is their accuracy, or lack of. With the heating off My Wiser TRV’s will tell me that the room temp is 15c when in fact its 16.5c-17c and with a setback of 17c will turn the heating on wasting energy. Conversely when the heating is on the TRV’s will tell me the room temp is 20c when in fact it’s about 18c and when I have a temp demand of 19c will turn the heating off so the room never gets to the required temperature. This is why I have to buy Wiser room thermostats so I can measure the room temperatures with more accuracy.

 

[ericmark]

I know the Energenie TRV heads measure air and water temp the latter corrects the former. I have three makes and yes plus and minus points on all.

I don't have tado, so can't comment, but position does change things. Summer when no heating on they match.