Schedule4-How to rewire most of your house without notifying

[Electrifying]

I thought that poor MichaelTTs thread had been hijacked enough - so I thought I'd post this in a new one.

Let's get into the spirit of DIY (and the ridiculous)

For all you DIYers, here's how to save yourself a fortune.

You have a 4 bedroom detached house with attached garage and utility rooms and outbuilding.

Wiring dating mainly from the 50s, but the board has been upgraded to a split-load 12 way - RCD protecting roughly half the circuits - none on the rest. CU in the garage.

Taking Scedule 4 literally, here's how to rewire it youself, without notifying, and save yourself possibly thousands.

Circuits:


1/ 40A MCB Shower
2/ 32A MCB Upstairs sockets
3/ 32A MCB Downstairs Sockets and FCU feed to outhouse supplying power and lighting
4/ 20A MCB Garage Socket Radial
5/ 20A MCB Utility Socket Radial
6/ 6A MCB Upstairs Lights
7/ 6A MCB Downstairs Lights
8/ 6A MCB Garage and Utility Lighting
9/ 40A mcb Cooker
10/ Kitchen Ring Final
11/ Kitchen Lighting
12/ Spare

Ignore circuits 1, 9, 10 & 11 - These are special locations and would require notification.

For socket circuits 2 & 3 - run a 500mm length of 4mm T&E from each MCB to a surface mounted, single socket outlet (for each circuit).
This is classed as a 'spur' and is not notifiable.

For socket circuits 4 & 5, run a 500mm length of 2.5mm T&E from each MCB to a surface mounted, single socket outlet each.
These are also classed as spurs.

For each lighting circuit, run a 500mm length of 1.5mm T&E from each MCB to a batten lamp holder each.

You're getting the idea now, aren't you?

That's enough for one day - have a break.

The next day you can set about stage two - destroying half of your house!

Remove the existing '50s wiring from each MCB, leaving the spurs that you added in place.......still okay under Schedule 4 - it doesn't say anything about removing circuits.
The spurs that you added yesterday, have, by default, become radial circuits today.

Rip old wiring and all old accesories out from your house.

Mark out where you'ld like all your nice new socket outlets, switches, lamp holders etc.
Chase out any walls etc etc

Now, remember the spurs from yesterday.

Starting with Circuit number 3, the downstairs sockets, get your roll of 4mm T&E and run the cable from the single socket outlet (that you installed yesterday) to each of your downstairs socket points - you get the idea. Don't forget to run the new 2.5mm cable to your outbuilding from your new FCU.
Again, not notifiable, you are only extending a circuit and adding socket outlets to it.

Apply the same procedure to each of the other circuits.

At the end of this procedure you will have succeeded in rewiring most of the cable in your house, you will have added all new accessories, and all as a DIY project and not notifiable (According to Schedule 4).

You could at this point remove the socket outlets and batten lighting that you installed on day 1 and join the cables together by whatever method. (You're not going to want all those lights and sockets around your CU.)

Now, the important bit.......DON'T re-energise the installation at this point.
Although this is a DIY project, the circuits still require the necessary testing before and after energising.

Here's what you do next:

Employ an Electrician who is a member of one of the self-certification schemes.
Tell him you want a new circuit installing for both your shower & cooker and that you want new power and lighting installing in your kitchen and lighting in the bathroom.
Tell him you'd also like a new dual RCD board installing.

You should get that little lot for less than a thousand pound - but the big bonus is........he's gonna test all your circuits for you before re-energising the new CU AND give you a schedule of test results for your circuits.

And there you have it, a full rewire for less than half the price

Now isn't that bloody ridiculous!!

And you're telling me that we shouldn't try to interpret what Schedule 4 is implying - we should just take it as read???

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Remove the existing '50s wiring from each MCB, leaving the spurs that you added in place.......still okay under Schedule 4 - it doesn't say anything about removing circuits.

In which case you can stop right there.

Schedule 4 defines what is not notifiable, not what is.

So if Schedule 4 makes no mention of removing circuits then removing circuits is not defined as non-notifiable.

 

[Electrifying]

Remove the existing '50s wiring from each MCB, leaving the spurs that you added in place.......still okay under Schedule 4 - it doesn't say anything about removing circuits.

In which case you can stop right there.

Schedule 4 defines what is not notifiable, not what is.

So if Schedule 4 makes no mention of removing circuits then removing circuits is not defined as non-notifiable.

Strange that........

1. Work consisting of—

(a)replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—.
(i)any new fixed cabling, or.
(ii)a consumer unit;.

There's good old Schedule 4 defining that new fixed cabling or a consumer unit ARE notifiable.

Depends how it's worded, doesn't it.

Anyway, removal of a circuit isn't notifiable, as you well know.....stop being picky!

 

[JohnW2]

Schedule 4 defines what is not notifiable, not what is. So if Schedule 4 makes no mention of removing circuits then removing circuits is not defined as non-notifiable.

Nor does it say that changing lamps non-notifiable.

I don't think that any sane person (or court) would believe that Part P applies to removing circuits. Part P is about reasonable provisions for safety, and a circuit which is no longer there cannot be unsafe. Furthermore, the word of Part P says that is "only applies to electrical installations that are intended to operate on LV or ELV" ... and a circuit which has been ripped out and thrown into the a bin clearly isn't intended to operate at all!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

1/ 40A MCB Shower
9/ 40A mcb Cooker
10/ Kitchen Ring Final
11/ Kitchen Lighting
Ignore circuits 1, 9, 10 & 11 - These are special locations and would require notification.
..... [lots of DIY work] ...
Employ an Electrician who is a member of one of the self-certification schemes. Tell him you want a new circuit installing for both your shower & cooker and that you want new power and lighting installing in your kitchen and lighting in the bathroom. Tell him you'd also like a new dual RCD board installing. You should get that little lot for less than a thousand pound - but the big bonus is........he's gonna test all your circuits for you before re-energising the new CU AND give you a schedule of test results for your circuits. And there you have it, a full rewire for less than half the price

Aren't you being over-cautions (and unnecessarily contrived), and thereby doing yourself out a few hundred quid?

From my reading of Schedule 4, it's only adding new lights, switches, sockets, spurs etc. [per 2(c)] that ceases to be non-notifiable (i.e. is notifiable) in special locations. Replacing accessories and light fittings etc.[per 1(a)] and 'Replacing damaged cable' [per 1(b)] doesn't appear to carry any such restrictions, provided you only replace damaged caables 'one at a time'. So couldn't you also replace all of the wiring (and, if you wished, accessories etc.) of circuits 1, 9, 10 & 11 (assuming the cables were damaged, which I'm sure they would be ), leaving your electrician only having to do the CU change and testing? ... or am I missing something? In fact, if you agree with what I've said, you could presumably apply that same approach to the entirity of your installation (everything other than CU), without having to use the more contrived and staged approach you suggest, couldn't you?

Now isn't that bloody ridiculous!!

Absolutely crazy!

Kindest Regards, John.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

here's how to rewire it youself, without notifying, and save yourself possibly thousands.

Bit of a statement.

Ignore circuits 1, 9, 10 & 11 - These are special locations and would require notification.

And there you have it, a full rewire for less than half the price

could you do some maths on this and work out how you would think by pratting about you are going to save yourself £1000s.?
Not that I think it is at all feasible but say it was, what about all the minor work certificates that would need to be completed for every alteration you make.
Just doesn't stack up!

Let's get into the spirit of (the ridiculous)

Sums it up to me

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ericmark]

The answer is simple. How do the LABC know what you have done and when?

If I want to get some where quick I break the speed limit. Although now too old to want to get anywhere quick.

But same with re-wire. Simple answer if you don't want to notify you simply break the law.

We all know people flout the rules all the time. Be it not checking the earth loop impedance or not going through LABC personally not following BS7671:2008 is far more dangerous than not paying the LABC their fee.

So nitty gritty why pay the fee? Answer is simple you want to show a buyer or insurer that it was done correct. On a whole house re-wire it will cost around £200 to get the paper trail required to sell the house. So to show the prospective buyer that the £3000 spent on the re-wire was done A1 it's going to cost £200. Not worth worrying about just pay the fee.

I would agree for the old extra socket then £200 is OTT but for whole re-wire then quite reasonable.

So I agree with holmslaw it's a Stupid thread.

 

[JohnW2]

But same with re-wire. Simple answer if you don't want to notify you simply break the law.

I don't think it is the same, because ...

So I agree with holmslaw it's a Stupid thread.

I'm sure that Electrifying will say this himself, but I'm sure he intended the thread to be 'stupid', in the sense that it is exposing the stupidity of the law, as written. The whole point is that, contrary to what you have written above, the law has been written in a manner which seems to allow an almost complete re-wire to be done without notification without breaking the law. That's what's stupid - and, I assume, what this thread was intended to illustrate.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[OwainDIYer]

T
So nitty gritty why pay the fee? Answer is simple you want to show a buyer or insurer that it was done correct. On a whole house re-wire it will cost around £200 to get the paper trail required to sell the house. So to show the prospective buyer that the £3000 spent on the re-wire was done A1 it's going to cost £200. Not worth worrying about just pay the fee.

Does it really cost £3000 to rewire a house if your DIY?

Okay, Screwfix 26p light switches don't have the best of reviews, but I'm sure I could a fairly well-specced installation for about £500 for materials on a typical 2 bed semi.

 

[JohnW2]

Does it really cost £3000 to rewire a house if your DIY? Okay, Screwfix 26p light switches don't have the best of reviews, but I'm sure I could a fairly well-specced installation for about £500 for materials on a typical 2 bed semi.

As you say, it's clearly not going to cost anything remotely like £3000 in materials, even with the price of copper as it is. I don't know much about current job pricings, but I would have guessed that £3000 would be towards the top of the range of all-in prices for a professional re-wire of a 'standard' 2/3-bed semi - and, of course, only a small proportion of such a price is down to materials.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You would be surprised how much cable length you do use.
Even for two bed room semi, you are going be well in to your second 100mm
reel of 1.00mm/1.5mm for the lights and 2.5mm for the standard sockets circuit arrangements, then out top of that 4-6mm for cooker circuit and 6-10mm for the shower circuit. That starts to burn a tasty whole in to the material costs.

 

[JohnW2]

You would be surprised how much cable length you do use.
Even for two bed room semi, you are going be well in to your second 100mm reel of 1.00mm/1.5mm for the lights and 2.5mm for the standard sockets circuit arrangements, then out top of that 4-6mm for cooker circuit and 6-10mm for the shower circuit. That starts to burn a tasty whole in to the material costs.

I reckon that adds up to about £250 at today's retail prices. I presume you aren't seriously suggesting that the remainder of the materials would cost £2750?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

Ignore circuits 1, 9, 10 & 11 - These are special locations and would require notification.

According to the definition in schedule 4 only #1 is a "special location," with the others just being a kitchen.

But there's a way to do the work in the kitchen anyway: You just remove the sink and stash it away in the shed or garage. The room then ceases to be a kitchen as defined by schedule 4, so you could do whatever you like in there in the same way as if it were a living room or bedroom. When you're done, refit the sink. (Of course, you could remove the "food preparation facilities" instead of the sink, if you could actually figure out what that means.)

The same principle could be applied to the "special location" of the bathroom if you felt like going to the trouble of completely removing the bath and/or shower before doing the wiring.

For socket circuits 2 & 3 - run a 500mm length of 4mm T&E from each MCB to a surface mounted, single socket outlet (for each circuit).
This is classed as a 'spur' and is not notifiable.

For socket circuits 4 & 5, run a 500mm length of 2.5mm T&E from each MCB to a surface mounted, single socket outlet each.
These are also classed as spurs.

For each lighting circuit, run a 500mm length of 1.5mm T&E from each MCB to a batten lamp holder each.

No need to go to all that trouble, unless you had some need for the lights and sockets during the rest of the work.

However, if you did do that......

Starting with Circuit number 3, the downstairs sockets, get your roll of 4mm T&E and run the cable from the single socket outlet (that you installed yesterday) to each of your downstairs socket points - you get the idea.
{.....}
You could at this point remove the socket outlets and batten lighting that you installed on day 1 and join the cables together by whatever method.

There would be no need to do all of that. Just run the new cables back to the board and connect them to the same terminals, then remove the cables to the temporary sockets/lights.

So if Schedule 4 makes no mention of removing circuits then removing circuits is not defined as non-notifiable.

Schedule 4 doesn't need to provide an exemption, because removal of circuits wouldn't be notifiable anyway. Look under regulation 3(b) for the relevant definition of "building work" in relation to electrics:

Meaning of building work

3.— (1) In these Regulations “building work” means— {.....}

(b) the provision or extension of a controlled service or fitting in or in connection with a building;

So removal is not "building work" for the purposes of the building regulations.

Nor does it say that changing lamps non-notifiable.

I think it does: It's covered by 1(a).

The answer is simple. How do the LABC know what you have done and when?

Which is what makes the whole thing so farcical anyway.

 

[JohnW2]

According to the definition in schedule 4 only #1 is a "special location," with the others just being a kitchen.
But there's a way to do the work in the kitchen anyway: You just remove the sink .... The same principle could be applied to the "special location" of the bathroom if you felt like going to the trouble of completely removing the bath ....

As I asked Electrifying last night, am I missing something, because all that hassle and 'contriving' looks unnecessary to me. Why can't one simply replace all of the accessories and fittings under 1(a) and all of the ('damaged') cable, one-at-a-time under 1(b) - neither of which works appear to cease to be non-notifiable in a kitchen or special location?

Nor does it say that changing lamps non-notifiable.

I think it does: It's covered by 1(a).

I'm sure one could argue that lamps are not 'fixed'

Which is what makes the whole thing so farcical anyway.

.. and which (although a few don't seem to realise it) is surely the point Electrifying wanted to make when he started this thread?

Kind Regards, John.