Scudo (Expert/Dispatch) Rear Shoe Auto Adjuster Questions?

[ReganAndCarter]

Time to replace the rear brake shoes on my 2004 Mk1 Scudo 2.0 Jtd van. Unfortunately all the brake shoes I've replaced in the past have been manual adjusters on the back plate - had no experience of auto adjusters. I have a few Qs for the experts -

1) Would I need to replace the adjuster (van on 108,000 miles - don't know if original, but not been replaced in my 17 years of ownership)?

2) Or do I just need to clean adjuster and lube - copper grease, etc?

3) When it all goes back together, what do I need to do about adjusting the shoes? Do I leave the shoes in a bit so there's a gap to get the drums back on and drive it like that and let the adjuster move the shoes outwards to where it wants them? How long would it take the adjusters to make the shoes move outwards to the correct gap from drum?

4) Or do I need to put drum back on then turn teeth on adjuster so shoes are almost touching? Presumably in this case there's an access hole in backplate - I haven't looked?

5) Lastly, would it be necessary to renew the springs - think you can get them as a kit?

Thanks to anyone who has any help and advice they can give me (except "scrap the thing!" ).

 

[carmanmemoranda]

1. No if it all works, not broken
2 yes if it all works. But just the lightest smear of copper grease. You don't want any near the actual brake material, or fluid, or cylinder rubbers
3 if the drum has a lip on it it needs grinding off. Adjust so the drum just slides on. Once the drums are on, if the adjuster works ok, then several presses of the brake pedal will take up the slack. DO NOT use the handbrake until ALL adjustment is done
4 no access hole I know of in your setup.
5 I always replace springs, as a fitting kit, but many don't. They've worked hard though

Or 6. Just scrap the thing

 

[Burnerman]

To continue.....
Do one side at a time, using the untouched side for reference
Wire brush the back plate and grease the shoe contact areas.
Check for leakage by peeling back the wheel cylinder rubbers.
John

 

[ReganAndCarter]

3 if the drum has a lip on it it needs grinding off. Adjust so the drum just slides on. Once the drums are on, if the adjuster works ok, then several presses of the brake pedal will take up the slack. DO NOT use the handbrake until ALL adjustment is done

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. Just a few questions about point 3.

I don't have an angle grinder. Would a drill with a chuck or flexi shaft mounted grinding stone do the job? I always wondered if it was the foot brake, handbrake or both that made the adjuster operate to take up any wear/gap. So it's the foot brake that is mainly concerned with adjustment? Also, out of interest, what would happen if I used the handbrake before adjustment is done?

Apologies for the basic, back to school questions. Your post gives me confidence that it SHOULD go ok - especially as there's no access hole in back plate with fiddly adjustment for me to feck up. Let the adjuster do it's job.

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www.britishpipeclamps.co.uk

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Or 6. Just scrap the thing

Not after all that aggro with cv boots x 8, fitted by about five different people and the speed sensor that seemed to be unique to my actual van. But then if the brakes are as problematic, who knows?

 

[ReganAndCarter]

To continue.....
Do one side at a time, using the untouched side for reference
Wire brush the back plate and grease the shoe contact areas.
Check for leakage by peeling back the wheel cylinder rubbers.
John

Thanks John, may also take a pic just in case. Good recommendation about the back plate. Copper grease again I would have thought. Will see what the cylinders look like.

May even treat myself to can of brake cleaner, or 'start you bastard!' as someone on Youtube calls it as he uses it as easy start. And some more copper grease - didn't realise it had a 5 year shelf life - my tube is at least five times that age limit.

 

[Burnerman]

Regarding point 3, an angle grinder isn’t what you need. I use an air die grinder, but a wheel in a drill is fine - the rust lip makes maintenance much easier in the future and it’s easy to see.
It’s the expansion of the wheel cylinder that causes the adjuster to turn, the handbrake has no effect on this.
John

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Couple more questions about sourcing parts. I'm a bit cautious when it comes to brake parts and want good quality and not taking any risks buying fakes. I looked at Halfords (I have trade card so poss not so expensive) but they don't seem to have any brake parts. Arnold Clark, who I know nothing about, have Mintex shoes for £22 and an accredited (on the Ferodo catalogue site) Ferodo supplier has them for £37 (APD Car Parts, Swindon). I suppose either of these will be a good brand.

Where do others buy brake parts online to avoid knock offs?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Regarding point 3, an angle grinder isn’t what you need. I use an air die grinder, but a wheel in a drill is fine - the rust lip makes maintenance much easier in the future and it’s easy to see.
It’s the expansion of the wheel cylinder that causes the adjuster to turn, the handbrake has no effect on this.
John

To add to this, using the handbrake pulls the shoes to the drum, without the adjuster

Gives you a very long travel handbrake and poor foot brake.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Partsinmotion.co.uk recommended

No connection to them but i use them a bit

 

[Burnerman]

My local factor supplies APEC as well as others, and they do a good range of return springs and shims etc.
John

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I think trw do a set of shoes with springs all set up ready to just fit on. No messing with springs then. And good quality.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Thanks again for the info. Reading around online APEC seem to get good comments. Not heard of TRW. I think Ferodo are still very good but some people saying Mintex aren't what they were. But they're just online opinions from individuals.

Whatever goes on - defintely not a set of ECP £9.99 specials!

 

[mointainwalker]

Thanks again for the info. Reading around online APEC seem to get good comments. Not heard of TRW. I think Ferodo are still very good but some people saying Mintex aren't what they were. But they're just online opinions from individuals.

Whatever goes on - defintely not a set of ECP £9.99 specials!

TRW is a multi-multi $ billion o.e. parts supplier: possibly the biggest in brake parts. Now owned by ZF, the leading German manufacturer of - amongst other things - automatic transmissions.