Seeking Advice: Neighbor's Extension and Party Wall Concerns

[MissBuilding1975]

Hi All,

I was wondering if you could help me with a challenging situation. Basically, my neighbor is applying for planning permission for a single-storey extension. Before my neighbor moved into his property, he purchased it knowing the current structure, which includes my external wall being on his land, as highlighted in red.

These houses were built in the 1950s, and each person's shed overlaps into the other neighbor's garden. I am one of two in my street with this structural setting. All other homes within the street have their sheds in front.

This shed of mine, which is now a converted utility and downstairs bathroom, is within my title deeds and also noted in the title deeds of the neighbor as "title number #.... is a joined property to (My address/deed number of my home)." This is how they unfortunately built these in the 50s.

Today, my neighbor approached me and said he would like to discuss a party wall agreement between us on Saturday. I do not yet know his extension proposals, but given his approach today, it seems that he may be planning to build in front of my wall, taking the whole width to the fence and coming forward, or perhaps taking the width of where his property ends and coming out.

Given the photo below, highlighted in red is my old shed which he has no access to internally, only myself. You can make out where his property ends via the green line above. Given everything I have said above, what do you think his structural plans might be? I am worried because he is a great neighbor, and I have no problems with him, but I need to be sure that his plans do not cause problems for me if I decide to sell my property.

He has personally faced problems when he tried to sell, with buyers asking, "Why is part of that neighbor's (my) wall in the garden?" Unfortunately, that's how the houses were built. I own my house outright, and both my and my neighbor's deeds state that the property is mine (adjoined to my property). This note has been in place since the 50s.

If you were in my situation, what would your limitations be? What would you accept and not accept? It's very confusing because the building is mine, but half of the wall is within his boundary. When he bought the property, he knew this. Where do my rights stand, especially with regards to my concerns, which are:

1. If he wants to extend the whole width and link onto my wall, where would his roofline start? He would essentially be disturbing my flat roof and fascias. What are my rights to prevent that? Surely, my title deed is enough, right? What could I propose back to him?

Ideally, I'd like to think he would follow the same width of where his property ends and then come out. I presume and hope that the reason for the party wall agreement is because where his property ends is where my wall starts in that small corner. That would be fine, and I would happily agree to that.

2. What do you think his proposed plan structure might be, based on him suggesting a party wall agreement?

3. Looking at this, what would you be concerned about? Please give me any advice necessary.

Overall, my neighbor is a great person, and I support his extension, but I have to be cautious. I don't want to accept a party wall or build if it means he might be trying to connect to my wall from the front, essentially blocking access to that wall, which may then turn into his internal wall. This could raise issues with future buyers who might question why his extension is over my wall and whether I have accepted this new status quo.

Your thoughts on this, please. Please note, I am not too familiar with property law and rights, including party wall agreements. Everything I have written is just from a logical standpoint, and I understand I may be wrong. Looking forward to your opinions and help.

Thanks.

 

[Deluks]

Why are you asking us to guess what his plans might be when you have the opportunity to ask him in person.
Do that first, share your concerns with him. Then get back to this thread with any relevant questions.

 

[mikeey84]

Given he has mentioned a party wall agreement, I would guess that he will be making alterations that affect a shared wall (or your shed roof may become the floor of his 1st floor extension).

As above, Deluks says, we can't guess what he may want to do!

Ask what his plan is, even request a copy of any drawings or a sketch, and report back

 

[^woody^]

If part of your building is on adjacent land, then if built like it, it's yours and can't be touched without your consent. This is nothing to do with the PW Act.

Regarding any PW notice served, you should be sure you understand the immediate and long term implications of the alteration work, and if in doubt you should dissent and instruct a surveyor to advise and look after your interests.

But you'll need to post the actual plan and ask your questions about the proposals.

 

[MissBuilding1975]

Thanks @^woody^ @mikeey84 @Deluks for your responses,

I wanted to give an update. Today, my neighbor briefly explained his proposal. Although my shed wall, which is part of my property, is on his land, both of our title deeds this as the originally built in the 50s when the properties were built from the councils back then.

He mentioned starting his extension halfway along my wall, potentially removing my fascias and part of the roof to erect a pitched roof. He assured me that he'd handle the costs to any fix and make good of my roof and not to worry. He'll show me the planning permission drawings tomorrow.

Very bizarre as he speaks with a level of intention despite my opinion and rights, might I add he works in the construction industry.

I raised the following points and will continue to discuss them with him tomorrow:

1. **Warranty and Insurance**: Disturbing my roof invalidates my 10-year warranty and home insurance. Future issues would leave me responsible, especially if he sells his property and the issues were caused because of his build.

2. **Structural Concerns**: Creating a suitable pitch from my flat roof height could lead to disturbing the brick course and increase load-bearing risks, possibly causing subsidence. Attaching or building on top of a wall without suitable foundations (Maybe) As it was built in the 50s.

3. **Sunlight Blockage**: His extension could block natural light to my only windowed side garden door if he decides to go the pitch route.

Potential buyers have already been confused by the wall in his garden, thinking it's his when it's actually mine. When he put his property up for sale but then took it off the market, it was already an issue. Adding an extension that disturbs my wall and roof may further complicate my future sale. Buyers might ask, "How come your ajoined property is in their boundary, yet they have built an extension right in front of it and linked their roof to yours?" This scenario is off-putting for potential buyers. While the extension might cover the wall to reduce confusion, linking two roofs at different heights on two different properties seems problematic and will look very strange, I cannot see that being passed by the planning permission.

Ideally, he could start his extension from his property line, avoiding my wall entirely (Highlighted in yellow). This would prevent boundary confusion for future buyers. I've shown this in my drawing below. Removing the last fence panel and angling it towards the end of my wall, might be a small loss for him but would stop boundary confusion for any buyers and all me access to my wall.

I'll know more tomorrow after seeing his drawings, provided he doesn't cancel. Let me know what you think, please. I've included a drawing of his intention below and will update you again later.

Thank you so much again.

 

[Deluks]

Very confusing.
So this photo is taken from his garden, and the entire flat roof section with the white fascia is all yours?

You fence angling idea is ok, but perhaps you could offer to buy the strip of land in front of your wall?
You'll have foundations under that wall anyway, that will extend outwards.
If you bought a foot of his garden, he could then add another fence panel at right angles to the existing, in front of the wall, which would make the boundary a lot clearer.
He is then free to do what he wants on his side of the fence.

Regarding your questions:

1) Make sure he has insurance in place, also building and planning regs if required.

2) Adding a pitched roof onto the wall is unlikely to cause any structural issues. In any case he could/should dig a test pit against the wall to see how deep the foundations are.

3) You probably don't have any valid complaint here regarding sunlight blockage, but you could be a pest about it and agree to let it go if your other concerns are addressed.

 

[mattylad]

Also check for how drainage from his property will affect yours.
Where he is going to drain from his roof to and will any of the runoff from his property be coming onto yours.

 

[Murdochcat]

Not sure I agree with your wall being on “his” land.

 

[kingandy2nd]

Not sure I agree with your wall being on “his” land.

Agreed. The boundary will no follow the edge of your building so the land within that is now yours.

 

[MissBuilding1975]

Hi @Deluks @kingandy2nd @Murdochcat @mattylad @mikeey84 @^woody^,

Thank you so much for your responses. Here is an update on the matter. Photos are below.

He is actually doing a dual-pitched roof; I saw his plans today. On my land registry and title registry, including his, it states that the external wall within his land is my property and adjoined to my home. I shaded the part in green. This wall is part of the natural original property build from 1949, shared between both our properties and adjoined to my home. This shows on his title plan with the title number from the land registry.

I spoke to him, and he confirmed that he won’t touch my fascias and roof, acknowledging that the property is mine. Regarding the boundary where the fences are, that has been like that from day one, and no one argues about it. Regarding my wall, it is neither my issue nor his; it is an acceptance by both property owners beyond our control, reflecting how the council built the homes and my shed in 1949. Whether we like it or not, it cannot be changed. His sheds are in his rear garden to the right, which were also built as part of these old council builds. Every home on the street was provided with built sheds, three of which in the street are adjoined where a small part of the wall is on the boundary of the neighbour’s land. However, it is not theirs, as it clearly states on my title plan with the red line boundary and register.

Despite his drawings showing otherwise, I now need to comment to the council for objection or support. Given the drawings, I have to state an objection regarding the roof structural disturbance and to not link his roof to mine without permission. In addition, his architectural site plan boundary line red drawings completely miss out MY SHED, which is totally contrary to the real land registry drawings. He apologized for this after I brought it up with him and said it was an error from the architect but still submitted it to the council.

I am happy to support his application on the condition that he must provide a party wall agreement, which involves the neighbor's use of my wall and the build being within 2 meters of the boundary. Additionally, it must adhere to a height of 3 meters at the lowest point of the roof eaves and 4 meters at the highest point of the dual pitch to not block my right to light through my kitchen door right opposite him. How does the planning permission process establish if daylight will be blocked to my kitchen door?

What are your thoughts on this, please? Given what you see here, what concerns would you raise? He is a construction site owner and plans to build this out of an aluminum frame with a different means to foundation and walls. Will he do block work? What worries should I have regarding my party wall (external wall) or anything else? Also, regarding foundations, would that be covered in the party wall agreement as it’s on the boundary line and linking to my external wall?

Thank you all and looking forward to your responses.

 

[thomp1983]

I'd be discussing how he thinks you will have access to maintain your roof once he has built his extension, you can obviously access from the roof but if his extension doesn't leave some working space you'd never replace the fascias.

Unfortunately from a planning point of view you have no right to light in a kitchen as it's considered an uninhabited room so the council won't be interested in loss of light to a door.

I think id be tempted to allow him to alter and build onto your shed roof if he agrees to renew it all at his cost and maintain it in the future, you can have this added into both deeds, I think you'd end with something that would be alot less hassle going forwards and probably look better aswell

 

[MissBuilding1975]

Thanks @thomp1983 , this is the thing. If I agree to his alterations, it would invalidate my roofing warranty. We had the roofs and fascias done 3 years ago. Plus, the neighbor has said he intends to move away in the future to sell the home. So how can I be sure of any future maintenance with new neighbors, if you know what I mean? That alone would open a can of worms, which is why I’d rather my roof not be disturbed.

At least if we need to fix the roof, we can do so from the top, standing on it, etc. The minute he connects to it and permission from me is granted, then any future responsibility is out the window. Either way, the law states that the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 grants you the right to go onto your neighbor's land without their permission if you need to repair your home and require access via your neighbor's land, but only under the conditions for repairs.

Either way, the build is going there, access to the roof is limited once it’s there, and that cannot be argued. So, I’d rather keep things undisturbed and obvious as to whose roof is whose, as opposed to connections between the two, which would invalidate rights going forward.

Hopefully, given the nature of the matter, a party wall act notice can apply once I get our party wall surveyor involved to advise us otherwise.

Let me know your thoughts on my comments and thanks again for your response.

 

[^woody^]

If I agree to his alterations, it would invalidate my roofing warranty

Then a condition of the agreement would be for the neighbour to assume the warranty for it's remaining term.

 

[wessex101]

In my opinion the best solution is to allow the neighbour to butt the extension up to the existing wall and ensure the existing flat roof is made good and sealed against the new extension.
It is unreasonable to expect the neighbour to step his extension away from your wall just so that you can have access for future maintenance of your plastic fascia.
You should be able to agree a detail where the extension joins the existing wall and roof or get a joint party wall surveyor involved to draw up an agreement.

 

[MissBuilding1975]

In my opinion the best solution is to allow the neighbour to butt the extension up to the existing wall and ensure the existing flat roof is made good and sealed against the new extension.
It is unreasonable to expect the neighbour to step his extension away from your wall just so that you can have access for future maintenance of your plastic fascia.
You should be able to agree a detail where the extension joins the existing wall and roof or get a joint party wall surveyor involved to draw up an agreement.

I have no objection to him butting up against the existing wall, but linking up to the existing roof is not an option. Regardless of the made-good element, would you accept something that would invalidate your warranty and roofing insurance entirely because of someone else's work? Someone who is intending to move away anyway. Why have that issue with new neighbors?

How many forums are on here because of linked roofs and seal issues between neighbors? Attach his extension to the wall, design his roof in a way that misses my roof and structure entirely, or opt for a flat roof below mine. Just don't touch my roof. That's not unreasonable at all. What's unreasonable is that he purchased his house with the wall and roof there in its entirety, and now he thinks he can disturb people's property and expect me to trust him for the future if any issues arise. I don't want that burden on my conscience. Why risk it when everything is perfectly fine? Makes no sense. Would you accept that, seriously?

The fact that the neighbor has decided to build his extension on the far right, wanting to take advantage of a wall, is beyond me, especially when he has so much more space to his left. Essentially, he could bypass that wall. That's neither here nor there; he has the right to build where he wants within his boundary. However, disturbing the roof structure is a solid no.

"It's that you can have access for future maintenance of your plastic fascia." <<< This isn't unreasonable. This is someone's property. You can't just make a new roof and disturb the old one and trust that everything will be okay. I don't need that. While it may seem unreasonable in your eyes, I'm not asking him to step his extension away from the wall. What I am saying is that he should not touch mine and its structure. Imagine if he did, and down the line, his roof caused leaks within my property or dampness, etc. Then what? To prevent this entirely, butt up to the wall, mate, but leave the roof alone and make your own how you want. Keep mine away from yours. That is not unreasonable. What's unreasonable is that if I take this so far as to prevent him from using the wall at all within property law. But that's not fair, as part of my wall is within his boundary. So use the wall, but leave the roof alone.