Self employed plumbers

Paul,let us not forget everyone starts somewere.

Your first career wasn't plumbing,I bet you worked a while before you truely got to grips with the finer points such as 3/4 pipe,green rings,type c,type d and even 20thread.

I'd have thought you of all people would have understood,some one desperate enough to spend 4k and get a cert not worth the paper it's written on,might deserve a break.

Lee
 
Sponsored Links
Paul,let us not forget everyone starts somewere.

Your first career wasn't plumbing,I bet you worked a while before you truely got to grips with the finer points such as 3/4 pipe,green rings,type c,type d and even 20thread.

I'd have thought you of all people would have understood,some one desperate enough to spend 4k and get a cert not worth the paper it's written on,might deserve a break.

Lee

Lee thats all well and good, but alot of these guys seem to think that once they've got a bit of paper calling them a plumber then you should have to pay them full rates. Thats why they go on these fast tracks in the first place as they expect good money quickly rather then spending time learning along side someone or working under supervision. I don't think anyone would deny someone the opportunity to choose and train in any industry they choose as long as they gave it the respect it deserved.
 
micky, i totally agree with your line of thought as well.

Its hard to distinguish between them wanting to learn and them wanting to take the work as a chancer.

it wasnt a dig at paul as i know hes tried lots of avenues,helpng others etc and struggled on much to his own personal cost.

even college based apprentices cant be trusted anymore(akuras post),where can you turn. Any good SE lad will be busy or those that can demand too much monet compared to there worth.

recently we had a contact involving 1 bathromm change a day(rip out refit) i did the first few to guage the time/money.
the subby wanted 2aday and couldnt fininsh one between 8 and 6.
i could be done for 1.would never sub work out again.
 
A local chap responded to an ad I put out locally for SE plumbers to sub for me. Basically take ocassional work on price. I guy who is on his own responded. Now bearing in mind he has a website, sign written van etc...you'd think he'd be ok. Gave him a direct cylinder to change on price thinking 4hours absolute tops(realistically 2hours for someone experienced). In the end it took him all day including 3 visits from me to help him out. In the time I wasted visiting and setting him up with it I could of done it myself.
 
Sponsored Links
How ironic, that wedged in between the top 2 posts on page 2, is an advert for a 4 week plumbing course, with a company called Panda Plumbing.

Click on the advert and have a read at what you can cram in in 4 weeks. Quite shocking really. It's easy to understand why people are lured into it. Especially when the course is endorsed by City and Guilds - a name synonimous with professionalism. Why they lent there name to such a mickey mouse course, is beyond me.

I'm sure that, if quizzed about their courses, all parties involved would claim that they are not intended to churn out fully qualified plumbers and only designed as a taster etc...but who do they think is gonna apply, other than people with aspirations to earn money from what they have learned. I would think that the majority of people who take the courses go on to be self employed.

I kind of feel sorry for the people who pay their 3.5 grand and then get a short, sharp shock when thrown out into the real world. Those of us who have been doing the trade for years, know how hard it is when starting out-even with the security of a firm around you.
Then the other part of me thinks that they must be a bit thick, to think that you can learn a trade as complex as plumbing, in 4 weeks.
As they say - there's one born every minute. :rolleyes:
 
I had a trainee who had done a proper two year college gas course. He came to me when he was at the point of doing the ACS equivalents.

One of the first questions I asked him was how much did he expect to be earning in three years time. He really expected to be earning £70k !

He passed the ACS but is really not very good and cannot really repair boilers. He does CP12s and boiler instals in Manch now.

He probably gets about £25k in a good year and thats even with getting unqualifieds to fit boilers in his name!

Tony
 
good plumbers are in very short supply. For any plumbing/heating business thats expanding it must be one of the biggest challenges to find good competent plumbers/heating engineers.

That is a hard one to get right. I've always employed guys who i have known or worked with and know their strengths or limitations or who is known to others. I've been in the game long enough to know most of the good guys in the area as do most other established small firms so even if i wasn't too sure, a few phone calls to other colleagues for their opinion is all it takes.
I would never advertise for staff and would never take on anyone who had been through a course (maybe if they had 5years + experience?) Would never sub work out either as it is my rep that would take the hit for anything that went wrong.
Used an agency a couple of times for short term fill in stuff but had to send a few of them packing until i eventually got an old semi retired guy who was excellent.
I employed one guy tho a few years back who lasted a morning. I'd known him for years and he knew his stuff and was fast but was just too rough and i don't think my insurance would have coped. Too long on the building sites. He had another job the next week, back on the sites.

A good plumber/heating eng does not need to look too hard for a job. The offers will usually come to him if they put the word out or a few phone calls is all it takes.

they go on these fast tracks in the first place as they expect good money quickly rather then spending time learning along side someone or working under supervision
Then when they find out how useless the bit paper is and nobody will touch them they go self employed. (If they managed to get a start on the sites most wouldn't even last a day).
Then they find out how limited their knowledge is and bodge their way though things for a while doing small repairs for unsuspecting customers, then (hopefully) give up and go back to the call centre. We'll see how many of the new start ups are still around in 3 years. Not many i'd bet.
I kind of feel sorry for the people who pay their 3.5 grand and then get a short, sharp shock when thrown out into the real world
I don't. If they are stupid enough to take the bait, tough.
 
Paul,let us not forget everyone starts somewere.

Your first career wasn't plumbing,

Let me see now. Left boarding school spent 4 years at uni failed on 3rd yr finals and then again a year later.

so got job in management accounts passed foundation level of ICMA but found next level too hard and job so unrewarding it was beyond belief.

So tried to make a go of self employed as photographer and despatch rode in central London for around 10 years to actually earn the only money I earned at the time.

A car rammed me head on speed of impact 70mph left for dead. Ambulance took 1hr to arrive. It was the night London ambulance went onto computer dispatching computer said ambulance was dispatched all across London but ambulance didn't get message. 3people died that night over that farce I was nearly one of them.

Decided to do something worthwhile for rest of my life so trained as a nurse.

Saved quite a few lives and made a horrible time easier for quite a lot of families. developed M.E. and ended up long term sick. While off sick a sister who was monoevering for power realised my weekness at the time and so lied about me which resulted in me leaving as, although I was exonerated I couldn't go back to work with her as I was too vulneralble to future lies which could have far reaching consequences for a man in children's work. Saw a solicitor about unfair dismisal she said "forget it just get on with your life you won't get enough to make it worth fighting" A few years later the sister had assasinated a few other careers and personel suddenly realised and asked me to give evidence aghainst her. But she left her job the day before the hearing and it was all forgoten about. I couldn't go back to work because she had turned half my former coleagues to her way of thinking with her poison so I was not safe even with her gone. By the way the union Unison took the management side against me the reps words outside the room where the meeting determining my fate was held was "i don't think you've got a case" I was ill as it was with M.E. so I just allowed them to push m,e out the door with one months pay and that's all I will ever get from the health service.

So the gas fitter who did my cp12's said how is it gouing at the hospital "not very well I am thinking of leaving (while actually on long term sick), how is your work?" he said he was thinking of taking someone on. the rest is history. he trained me properly.


bet you worked a while before you truely got to grips with the finer points

I was about a year with him and rubbish when I passed acs at which the examiner said "well done Paul you flew through that". I had passed about 95% on first pass of questions without opening books. My gas fitter told me the game of passing acs is impressing the marker with your knoweldge they don't want people who keep looking it up and also he warned me they ask verbal questions to trap you so they can find out if you genuinly have knowledge and experience or are winging it.

I am just starting to get good 6 years on from acs 7 years on from beginning my career change. But by resuklts I am a lot better than 95% of the other people I have been compared to for example in bg performance review and results at Alpha.

have thought you of all people would have understood,some one desperate enough to spend 4k and get a cert not worth the paper it's written on,might deserve a break.

Lee

I know, all of the people I have helped along the way it has been charity and it has been done because I know their situation.

The problem I have is that the field is now flooded and the reason is the race to make money out of training people. We that give the practical experience and training that pick up the pieces don't get paid.

What should happen is these training establishmensts should be closed and these cc people should be sent to us to do the proper training of the right length of time and we the employing organsisation should be paid the 4 or 5k which is going to training organsiations.

When they come out of that training they will be useful and the money spent on training them will support the actual industry; US!
 
Some very good thoughts there.

Where it falls down is that its the CCs who just want to get an ACS and onto the job ASAP and they pay their £4k because the training places says they can get an ACS in six weeks. Obviously they dont tell them that they need about a year with an experienced person!

Under CORGI they were reluctant to register anyone without a years documented experience on the job.

Very unfortunately Gas Safe apparently register anyone with an ACS and seem to excuse this by saying they are on probation for 3 months. Its not surprising that the registration numbers are now in the range over 500,000.

Tony
 
Tony it seems you are critical of the CC folk. Surely you are a CC as well or have you served your time as a plumber sine you quit BBC? I have come across CC guys who could run rings around some RGIs who think they are bee's knees. Their work is neat and tidy AND safe as they are constantly vigilant as opposed to some who have an axe to grind and have sloppy work practice (Please note not pointing any fingers at anyone in particular- general view only)

When I left BT in '92, I did my Gas courses and had CORGI access me to be registered right away. Reluctance to register surely did not apply in my case.
 
I haven't got a problem with people who want to change careers.

I just wish that some pr1cks hadn't made it so easy, for so many, to change to MY chosen career!
 
this would of been of interest to me but you are too far away.

i have been a plumber for 20 years.
i have my own van.
all my tools.
cordless drills saw etc.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top