Shepherds hut electrics

[andyandy2]

We have a small business (sideline) making Shepherds huts, we have an order for a new hut that will have some electrics, couple of sockets, couple of lights, small consumer unit with RCD and the customer wants it on a caravan type hook up.
What electrical certificate / testing would be required as a new build hut, would it be an EIC we are told that "Part P" doesn't apply as it's not a "building"
The electrician we have used in the past is now (almost) retired due to ill health, he is willing to do some testing but I don't think he will be part of any "scheme" anymore, so will he be able to issue a valid certificate.
We could install the lights and sockets ourselves but again we are told, electricians can no longer certify someone else's work,
Can any "domestic" type electrician who is registered on a scheme do the installation / testing / certification for us or is it a specialised area
TIA

 

[chivers67]

The last bit means whoever completes the work will need to take SECTION 708 ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS IN CARAVAN / CAMPING PARKS AND SIMILAR LOCATIONS into consideration.

There's nothing to prevent you from pre-wiring your work and completing dead tests and print our results. It's only a few circuits

 

[EFLImpudence]

What electrical certificate / testing would be required as a new build hut, would it be an EIC we are told that "Part P" doesn't apply as it's not a "building"

The word in Part P is 'dwellings'; not buildings.
It is just one sentence that states everything must be done to ensure it is safe.

However, that is irrelevant with regard to your questions. If Part P does not apply then the Electricity at Work Regulations will.

The electrician we have used in the past is now (almost) retired due to ill health, he is willing to do some testing but I don't think he will be part of any "scheme" anymore, so will he be able to issue a valid certificate.

Yes, if he does the work but again that has nothing to do with Part P.

We could install the lights and sockets ourselves but again we are told, electricians can no longer certify someone else's work,

As said, you may (are allowed to) do it. If you don't know how, then obviously you cannot (are not able to).

Can any "domestic" type electrician who is registered on a scheme do the installation / testing / certification for us or is it a specialised area

It is not domestic (in dwellings) work so the schemes are not involved, but the electrics and the Electrical Wiring Regulations are the same.

 

[ericmark]

I thought Part P was part of the building regulations so if not a building nothing to do with them.

Some one needs to admit they have done the work and sign to say they have done the work, but there is no set qualification to be called an electrician.

 

[andyandy2]

Thanks for the replies, I'm still not much clearer regarding the best way to go about this, I'm happy to study the latest regs etc and to wire it ourselves (as one reply says it's only a couple of circuits) but without calibrated test gear would the results be acceptable
The electrician at the customers end who is sorting the caravan hook up post is asking for a "certificate of compliance" (I presume he means an EIC ?) He is asking if we have "an accredited third party electrician" so I presume he is looking for paperwork from a scheme membership

 

[andyandy2]

I thought Part P was part of the building regulations so if not a building nothing to do with them.

Some one needs to admit they have done the work and sign to say they have done the work, but there is no set qualification to be called an electrician.

Yes this is what we were told re building regs.
I have just found this

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236150/930113-_Dcl_about_The_Building_Regulations_1991_-_Caravans_and_Mobile_Homes.pdf

 

[EFLImpudence]

The electrician at the customers end who is sorting the caravan hook up post is asking for a "certificate of compliance" (I presume he means an EIC ?)

No, the Certificate of Compliance is what you receive from one of the Schemes (Registration Bodies) after the registered electrician has given you an Electrical Installation Certificate and 'notified' the work to that body.

If you - or an unregistered electrician - were able to do the work by 'notifying' the Local Authority (before the work is started) then they would issue a Certificate of Completion.

It's not supposed to make sense.

He is asking if we have "an accredited third party electrician" so I presume he is looking for paperwork from a scheme membership

It would appear so if that is what they want, presumably you will have to comply - but that might not be the only way the work could be done.

 

[Adam_151]

Personally I'd look to have your chap issue a 'transportable buildings EIC' which is/are a variation on the model form EIC specifically modified for a transportable unit, there are several slightly different variations on it created by different organisations, a quick google should find at least thumbnails which you can draw up a form from.Or just use the standard model forms and strike through the non-relevant boxes and add notes to cover extra bits.

I'd not worry about notification, when your chap is doing the work its not at a domestic premises, the on site chap contracted by the homeowner will have to notify his hookup point though

 

[RandomGrinch]

Personally I'd look to have your chap issue a 'transportable buildings EIC' which is/are a variation on the model form EIC specifically modified for a transportable unit,

Although I am not an expert and don't know of the appropriate regs, this sounds like a good approach.
In my work, I have built AV cabinets and this can include mains sockets on the outside and rewireable extensions on the inside. The cables from which, will be be connected to the mains with a standard plug.
In my case, what I have created is an "Appliance" and I PAT test it.
An EIC in the OP's case would seem to be equivalent to me?

...other than that, maybe a friendly call to a company like Portakabin, to see how they deal with the problem?

 

[ericmark]

I seem to remember there has been a resent clarification about mobile homes, caravans, and the like, where it has said the statement "NOTE: In the UK the ESQCR prohibit the use of a TN-C-S system for the supply to a caravan or similar construction." applies to mobile homes. But this is the site where the mobile home is connected to power, if you look at a normal EIC or EICR with no power most the tests simply can't be done.

Ze at origin and PFC will be what ever the socket it is plugged into has so

In my case, what I have created is an "Appliance" and I PAT test it.

seems to be a sensible approach.

As soon as a caravan is unplugged and transported to another site, any electrical test is invalid, to provide a test sheet which looks like a EIC or EICR could result is some one not doing the required on-site tests.

There should be a label

Fig 721 - Instructions for electricity supply

INSTRUCTIONS FOR ELECTRICITY SUPPLY TO CONNECT I. Before connecting the caravan installation to the mains supply, check that: (a) the supply available at the caravan pitch supply point is suitable for the caravan electrical installation and appliances, and (b) the voltage and frequency and current ratings are suitable and (c) the caravan main switch is in the OFF position. Also, prior to use, examine the supply flexible cable to ensure there is no visible damage or deterioration. 2. Open the cover to the appliance inlet provided at the caravan supply point, if any, and insert the connector of the supply flexible cable. 3. Raise the cover of the electricity outlet provided on the pitch supply point and insert the plug of the supply cable. THE CARAVAN SUPPLY FLEXIBLE CABLE MUST BE FULLY UNCOILED TO AVOID DAMAGE BY OVERHEATING​ 4. Switch on at the caravan main isolating switch. Check the operation of residual current devices (RCDs) fitted in the caravan by depressing the test button(s) and reset. IN CASE OF DOUBT OR, IF AFTER CARRYING OUT THE ABOVE PROCEDURE THE SUPPLY DOES NOT BECOME AVAILABLE, OR IF THE SUPPLY FAILS, CONSULT THE CARAVAN PARK OPERATOR OR THE OPERATOR'S AGENT OR A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. ​ TO DISCONNECT Switch off at the caravan main isolating switch, unplug the cable first from the caravan pitch supply point and then from the caravan inlet connector. PERIODIC INSPECTION​ Preferably not less than once every three years and annually if the caravan is used frequently, the caravan electrical installation and supply cable should be inspected and tested and a report on their condition obtained as prescribed in BS 7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations Published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and BSI.

This label is basic saying the user must check when the caravan is on site, the PIR became the EICR, but the report would need modifying to allow for fact it is going to be moved. As long as some where in the report you have some thing like "I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2018, amended to .............(date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows." that is enough.
The normal form has many items which are not applicable.

So to use the form would seem pointless, I would design my own form with all the useless bits left out, and issue it as a certificate, but of your own design, so there is no information as to supply characteristics as this will clearly change site to site.

 

[andyandy2]

Thanks for all the replies, it seems there is no set way of dealing with this and a few different options.
I did suggest that their electrician did all the testing himself, although he didn't seem too keen on that. (I would install it myself but don't want issues further down the line with the customer)
The circuits won't be complicated, the whole hut is only 10 square metres, the main issue would be cable routing and the insulation in a studded wall.
Will try a few local electricians see if they can help

 

[flameport]

it seems there is no set way of dealing with this and a few different options.

It's an electrical installation, so the standard set of tests should be done and an installation certificate completed by that person.

Schemes, Part P and so on are unrelated.

 

[ericmark]

I see the idea of it being an electricial installation, however until installed on site, it has no electric nor is it installed.

I would think there would be a system for pre-assembled or part assembled systems, blagdon made pre-assembled garden equipment which as it was pre-assembled got around the then new Part P law for work in the garden.

I do not recall any inspection or testing paperwork which came with it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

blagdon made pre-assembled garden equipment which as it was pre-assembled got around the then new Part P law for work in the garden.

No it didn't.

It still had to be safe which is all Part P says.

 

[SUNRAY]

I see the idea of it being an electricial installation, however until installed on site, it has no electric nor is it installed.

I would think there would be a system for pre-assembled or part assembled systems, blagdon made pre-assembled garden equipment which as it was pre-assembled got around the then new Part P law for work in the garden.

I do not recall any inspection or testing paperwork which came with it.

Essentially it is no different to any other preassembled electrical device, such as