Should dangerous tumble driers be named and shamed?

[ericmark]

We see reports and pictures

of tumble drier fires. The fire service gives advice, like

but the driers, well at least mine, are designed to set a delay start so it can be run overnight using cheap rate in the Winter, Summer cheaper to run during the day when sun is shining. The new version of mine, has an option to connect to internet, so one can turn it on when the sun comes out, even if at work, they are so clearly designed to work unattended, however that does not mean all are designed that way.

The big risk with a tumble drier is drying unwashed clothes, specially out of the kitchen, where oils and fats on the clothes can catch fire, and no warning given for that, I will assume the fire was with an old type, as it includes

with the advice, my heat pump tumble drier does not have a vent pipe, and since it takes around 2.5 hours to run the cycle, staying in the house while it runs not really an option.

Off-peak at moment midnight until 5 am, but about to change, so 2 am to 5 am, as they will then pay for solar export, so in Winter when not enough solar, it will run 2 am to nearly 5 am, and I think the risk of fire with a heat pump tumble drier is very low. Clearly always a risk, but it is like telling EV owners not to charge their cars overnight.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Red hot heating elements, and fluff from clothing, blown over the element, is never going to end well - no matter how well they are designed.

Heat pump driers are naturally safer, because there are no red-hot elements involved.

 

[pto]

YES YES YES but its not going to happen

 

[Mottie]

"Should dangerous tumble driers be named and shamed"?
Most definitely. Tracey, you slaaag!

 

[big-all]

i worked out some years ago washing a full load on 60 degrees cold fill 1600 spin and full tumble dry worked out at 35p /2.5 [14p then]units total with around 1.8 units for the tumble so the maximum saved could only ever be less than 40p now using overnight cheap rate ??

 

[ericmark]

If I look at any electric appliance, used once, less than £1, but we use stuff every day, so the cost per year is more important. So the important time is 4 pm to 7 pm, as the cost is 36.06p per kWh so don't want to run out of battery before 7 pm, and at moment 5:30 pm I start battery discharge, and the difference between 25.76p and 15.45p is not that much, so yes once I change to Octopus, the running overnight not quite so important.

But with British gas, 8.95p to 31.31p, the difference is double. So it would depend on the tariff. It seems peak - off-peak can vary between 10 and 20p per kWh. So taking average from the internet

cost difference between a 1/3 and 2/3, so heat pump £25 to £50 a year saving, and the others £60 to £90 per year. Not sure how accurate the data is? As I found, the vented tumble dryer had 1 kW or 2 kW option where the non heat pump condenser dryer does not have the option to run on low heat, so due to low heat option the vented was cheaper to run compared with non heat pump condenser dryer.

The figures are likely repeated with dishwasher, and washing machine, so times 3 so £75 to £270 per year. Depending on tariffs and types, but the idea of scare tactics without saying what make or type of dryer, does not make sense, we run our freezer overnight, and that is the same technology as the dryer.

 

[big-all]

the tumble at £184x29p works out at 1 tumble a day at around 1.75kw

as an aside a load at a 1400 spin speed will need 2-3 times the energy to dry over 1600 spin speed as 1600 comes out damp to dry to the touch rather wet to damp

 

[ericmark]

600 watt x 2.5 hours = 1.5 kWh with a heat pump drier. However, sometimes it uses a mark/space ratio, so not as simple as time x power as power can vary.

The old vented would take around 90 to 120 minutes at 1 kW = 1.5 to 2 kWh, but drum size was smaller, so not direct comparison. But since had to have a window open with pipe through the window, and at that time no smart meter, it was always run during the day.

Until we got solar, battery and smart meter, there was no special time to run the tumble drier, but it seems Angela Rippon does her gardening at night, I think that is going OTT.

 

[jj4091]

as an aside a load at a 1400 spin speed will need 2-3 times the energy to dry over 1600 spin speed as 1600 comes out damp to dry to the touch rather wet to damp

I agree with everything else you say but there are too many variables to be able to make that statement.

 

[ericmark]

the tumble at £184x29p works out at 1 tumble a day at around 1.75kw

as an aside a load at a 1400 spin speed will need 2-3 times the energy to dry over 1600 spin speed as 1600 comes out damp to dry to the touch rather wet to damp

Does it not matter about drum size? Bigger the drum, greater centrifugal force. So old twin tub spin drier, not as good as today's spin drier, however use the mangle first and then it worked better.

Not sure if I want to return to top loader.

From the first Bendix

washing machine we had, which had to be bolted down to the floor, the whole idea was it was automatic, main problem was washing machine detergents had not come out, so would often see soap bubbles erupting from that central flap.

These

were a common sight. And the kitchen had louvred windows to get rid of the heat from the Aga stove, which was never let out, just damped down overnight. So loads of hot water from the side boiler, and washing machines were hot and cold fill.

I have seen people still use the drier shown, or similar idea, and then use a dehumidifier to extract moisture from the air, but to combine them into a heat pump drier seems a far better idea. But they are nowhere near as fast as the old resistive element type drier, and this is a problem when there is a lot of washing to do, so drying overnight makes a lot of sense, if one wants 3 loads in a day.

Typical timing are. Morning, approx 10 am. Unload washing machine into drier, and load and set off washing with new load. Drier will be complete by 1 pm, so again unload washing machine into drier, and load and set off washing with new load. This will be complete around 4 pm and so no solar left, so unload washing machine into drier, and load but set delay start with both washing machine and tumble drier so they turn on around 1 am. That is only three loads a day.

With the old tumble drier vented, the cycle was more like 1½ hours, not 3 hours, so one did not need to run overnight.

In the report, it says "fire had spread from the garage" so would likely not matter day or night, likely no one is sat in the garage watching the washing. So

Don't overload plug sockets - the high wattage for a tumble dryer means that it needs its own 13-amp socket. Keep an eye out for any scorching or burn marks, including checking any visible electrical wires

At 600 watt for a heat pump drier, would not call that high wattage.

Don't leave appliances unattended – don't turn the tumble dryer on before you leave the house or go to bed. Tumble dryers contain powerful motors with fast-moving parts that can get very hot

So don't put tumble driers in garages or shed, then?

Keep your dryer well ventilated - make sure the vent pipe is kink free and not blocked or crushed in any way

My water drain pipe if blocked, stops machine and shows as a fault, should not all driers be made that way?

Always clean out the filter after using your tumble dryer

Yes the filter does get blocked quite fast, and there is a three stage filter, and easy to miss the last one, but again, if you forget, machine tells you.

Always allow each drying programme to complete fully before emptying - if you stop the machine mid cycle, the clothing will still be hot

Not sure about that, I have not found the 65ºC for hottest cycle is really hot enough to cause a fire, creases yes, fire no.

Don't ignore the warning signs – if you can smell burning or clothes feel hotter at the end of the cycle, stop using your appliance and have it checked out by a professional

OK common sense

Make sure you have working smoke alarms - test them regularly, once a week is recommended.

Again common sense.

But the warning not to try drying unwashed clothes completely missed.

This is something one is likely not to realise, seen where clothes dried from a kitchen without washing has done the same.

 

[big-all]

I agree with everything else you say but there are too many variables to be able to make that statement.

i was 100% only talking about my experience and lets call it 90% accurate for me and possibly only 50% accurate for others who have different needs
am a natural fibre man so spin speed makes a disproportionate difference as man made need less drying and can suffer badly from high spin

 

[big-all]

Does it not matter about drum size? Bigger the drum, greater centrifugal force. So old twin tub spin drier, not as good as today's spin drier, however use the mangle first and then it worked better.

Not sure if I want to return to top loader.

From the first Bendix View attachment 377645 washing machine we had, which had to be bolted down to the floor, the whole idea was it was automatic, main problem was washing machine detergents had not come out, so would often see soap bubbles erupting from that central flap.

These View attachment 377646were a common sight. And the kitchen had louvred windows to get rid of the heat from the Aga stove, which was never let out, just damped down overnight. So loads of hot water from the side boiler, and washing machines were hot and cold fill.

I have seen people still use the drier shown, or similar idea, and then use a dehumidifier to extract moisture from the air, but to combine them into a heat pump drier seems a far better idea. But they are nowhere near as fast as the old resistive element type drier, and this is a problem when there is a lot of washing to do, so drying overnight makes a lot of sense, if one wants 3 loads in a day.

Typical timing are. Morning, approx 10 am. Unload washing machine into drier, and load and set off washing with new load. Drier will be complete by 1 pm, so again unload washing machine into drier, and load and set off washing with new load. This will be complete around 4 pm and so no solar left, so unload washing machine into drier, and load but set delay start with both washing machine and tumble drier so they turn on around 1 am. That is only three loads a day.

With the old tumble drier vented, the cycle was more like 1½ hours, not 3 hours, so one did not need to run overnight.

In the report, it says "fire had spread from the garage" so would likely not matter day or night, likely no one is sat in the garage watching the washing. So
At 600 watt for a heat pump drier, would not call that high wattage.So don't put tumble driers in garages or shed, then?My water drain pipe if blocked, stops machine and shows as a fault, should not all driers be made that way?Yes the filter does get blocked quite fast, and there is a three stage filter, and easy to miss the last one, but again, if you forget, machine tells you.Not sure about that, I have not found the 65ºC for hottest cycle is really hot enough to cause a fire, creases yes, fire nK common senseAgain common sense.

But the warning not to try drying unwashed clothes completely missed.

This is something one is likely not to realise, seen where clothes dried from a kitchen without washing has done the same.

as my comment above

 

[ericmark]

as my comment above

Yes, I look at my washing and washing machine. Really wife's domain, I do as I am told. But we have 5 Ikea boxes, each one for different colours, if we tried to subdivide into material types, we would need 15 boxes, so although the washing machine dial has a whole host of options, in the real world, nearly every wash is the same.

And the same applies to the drier, to be frank, read the instructions, and we have 60ºC or 65ºC. OK, may be 14 or so options, but every one is either 60ºC or 65ºC. The three levels of dryness, OK, but I do not see clothes going into the airing cupboard, they are put away in draws etc.

But in the living room, I can just about hear the drier or washing machine running, since in a utility room, if the door closed, I would be unlikely to realise there was a fire until far too late. The washer/drier is in the flat under the house, and likely the first indication of a fire would be electric tripping.

Running day or night would really make no difference, except may see light from flames in the night.