Should I fit an RCBO or a MCB?

[ericmark]

What is a new circuit? Until the Part P documents have definitions then it's easy enough to argue it's not new so does not need notifying. I would get an EICR to ensure all OK but the £100 plus vat for a rubber stamp is not going to make anything safer so why bother?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What is a new circuit? Until the Part P documents have definitions then it's easy enough to argue it's not new so does not need notifying.

It's easy enough to argue that even though a new protective device is being installed in the CU it's not a new circuit? I don't think so.

the £100 plus vat for a rubber stamp is not going to make anything safer so why bother?

Depends on whether you think the right thing to do is to advise people to comply with the law or to break it.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

But...

have followed current regs up until now

Is the OP telling us things which are not true?

Well they have not have they! As the regulation within part p of notifying work prior to starting it has been overlooked for one, so we can not be confident that all other regulation/requirement has been upheld to, can we?
I get the impression by statements/eveidence that have been submitted by the OP, that they are out of their depth.

 

[Taylortwocities]

What is a new circuit? Until the Part P documents have definitions then it's easy enough to argue it's not new so does not need notifying.

Eric. this clarification document should answer your question.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/electrics/

In the text it clearly states

Notifiable jobs include:

• the installation of a new consumer unit or fuse box
• the installation of a complete new circuit – for example a ring or lighting circuit, or a new circuit for a cooker, shower or immersion heater
• alterations to existing circuits – such as adding an extra power point or lighting point – but only in ‘special locations’. In England, special locations are the spaces around baths and showers. In Wales, special locations include also kitchens and outdoors.

So, additions to existing circuits, or additional sockets after the installation of an FCU are not notifiable. Other requirements, such as conforming to BS7671, apply!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What is a new circuit? Until the Part P documents have definitions then it's easy enough to argue it's not new so does not need notifying. I would get an EICR to ensure all OK but the £100 plus vat for a rubber stamp is not going to make anything safer so why bother?

The circuit is no longer the same, it has not been replaced due to damage, it is new cable therefore new circuit

 

[Taylortwocities]

 

[EFLImpudence]

Notifiable jobs include:

• the installation of a new consumer unit or fuse box
• the installation of a complete new circuit – for example a ring or lighting circuit, or a new circuit for a cooker, shower or immersion heater
• alterations to existing circuits – such as adding an extra power point or lighting point – but only in ‘special locations’. In England, special locations are the spaces around baths and showers. In Wales, special locations include also kitchens and outdoors.

So, additions to existing circuits, or additional sockets after the installation of an FCU are not notifiable. Other requirements, such as conforming to BS7671, apply!

I do not agree with someone adding words to the text of the actual law because that is what they thought was meant.

Daft or not, the law says only:
'replacement' CU, does not mention 'fuse box' and
does not say 'complete' new circuit and
says only 'alterations or additions to circuits' of a special locations.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I rather think that they have added those bits to clear up confusion. I only added this as is the government's view on what they meant by the text in the Approved Document (not the "law" mind you).
Please feel free to take up your complaint with the folks at the Planning Portal, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I wasn't shooting you.

The law itself is very short but we have a whole industry of guidance documents telling us what was meant.
Let's face it, with the farce over non-combustible CUs even the authors of the regulations do not know what they meant.

 

[JohnW2]

I rather think that they have added those bits to clear up confusion. I only added this as is the government's view on what they meant by the text in the Approved Document (not the "law" mind you).

Strictly speaking, the text they are attempting to clarify (their view of) 'the intended meaning of' (i.e. the text specifying what is notifiable) is part of the Building Regs (not the AD), and therefore is "law". In any event, the clarification they are offering corresponds to the common sense interpretation of the law that most of us have always assumed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[DocScrewdriver]

[/QUOTE]
Is the OP telling us things which are not true?[/QUOTE]

Wished I hadn't bothered asking now if I thought I'd be getting this much flack. I don't mind constructive criticism but (you know who you are) don't cast aspersions on my education, knowledge or ability. I asked a question to which some kindly replied with useful info and advice. I accept that. Now I know about notification. I can get someone in to sort it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Doc - YOU were the one who claimed "have followed current regs up until now", nobody else.

Sounds like the OP has not done enough research and is under-prepared, ill-informed and undereducated to proceed any further with this task! If (big if) an electrician had been pre-arranged to make the final connections and tests, they would have informed the OP of what was required.

The circuit needs to be notified and approved prior to starting the work, cables and protective device need to be sized and selected correctly, cables routed within permitted zones, equipment selected suitable for the environment and IP ratings need to be compliant to BS7671.

Then before energising the circuit a series of tests must take place to confirm it is safe to energise, then on energising, further test are required to confirm the circuit is safe to be commissioned and go in to service, these results must then be documented in an electrical installation certificate.

Regrettably sounds like some/most of this has not and possibly will not be adhered to.

I asked him the question "Is the OP telling us things which are not true?"

The electric shower cable isn't connected up either end ie not shower or CU but has been fed along a route that enables the electric shower to be connected by sparky.

Who chose the size of the cable (design)?

Who chose the route of the cable (design and construction)?

Who is going to certify that the design and construction which they carried out complied with the regulations? The electrician? Does he know that? Is he happy to falsify documents?

It doesn't matter how keen a DIYer you are, neither attribute exempts you from being able to comply with the regulations.

 

[DocScrewdriver]

But...

have followed current regs up until now

Is the OP telling us things which are not true?

Well they have not have they! As the regulation within part p of notifying work prior to starting it has been overlooked for one, so we can not be confident that all other regulation/requirement has been upheld to, can we?
I get the impression by statements/eveidence that have been submitted by the OP, that they are out of their depth.

Listen - I admit to not knowing about the notify building planning or whatever they're called but I merely asked about a CU related question. I'm not an electrician but I am a keen DIY'er with a sound knowledge of physics and basic electrical theory. Perhaps all the hundreds of other forum members who ask hundreds of electrical related questions are also 'out of their depth?'

 

[DocScrewdriver]

Doc - YOU were the one who claimed "have followed current regs up until now", nobody else.

Sounds like the OP has not done enough research and is under-prepared, ill-informed and undereducated to proceed any further with this task! If (big if) an electrician had been pre-arranged to make the final connections and tests, they would have informed the OP of what was required.

The circuit needs to be notified and approved prior to starting the work, cables and protective device need to be sized and selected correctly, cables routed within permitted zones, equipment selected suitable for the environment and IP ratings need to be compliant to BS7671.

Then before energising the circuit a series of tests must take place to confirm it is safe to energise, then on energising, further test are required to confirm the circuit is safe to be commissioned and go in to service, these results must then be documented in an electrical installation certificate.

Regrettably sounds like some/most of this has not and possibly will not be adhered to.

I asked him the question "Is the OP telling us things which are not true?"

The electric shower cable isn't connected up either end ie not shower or CU but has been fed along a route that enables the electric shower to be connected by sparky.

Who chose the size of the cable (design)?

Who chose the route of the cable (design and construction)?

Who is going to certify that the design and construction which they carried out complied with the regulations? The electrician? Does he know that? Is he happy to falsify documents?

It doesn't matter how keen a DIYer you are, neither attribute exempts you from being able to comply with the regulations.

Cheers. Makes one wonder what's the point in DIY stores since we're not allowed to do anything anymore.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is nothing you are forbidden to do.