Should I pay extra for the brushless 12v drill

[Deleted member 174758]

the renowned German engineering company, AEG, went bust since then. some parts were bought up. For domestic appliances, the brand name is owned by Electrolux who stick it on some of their products. I don't know if anyone bought the rights to use the badge for power tools.

Atlas Copco bought the factories, designs, and the name (or at least the right to use it) when AEG started to break up in the 1990s. With that purchase came a large percentage of the American firm, Milwaukee, for whom AEG had designed and made power tools (mainly jigsaws, circular saws, SDS drills and cordless tools). Atlas Copco also bought Kango in the UK (presumably to get hold of the breaker technology as the Wolf side of that business had pretty much withered and died by 1990) and merged them into the German operation by the late 1990s with production of the Kango hammers going to Winnenden in Germany and all the old Wolf-derived tools bring dropped from production and/or replaced by rebadged AEG tools. Kango eventually became a sub-range within the Milwaukee range

Anyway A-C decided in the early noughties to get out of the power tool market and sold off their power tool interests (AEG and Milwaukee/Kango) to TTI in Hong Kong, who already owned Ryobi.

The Winnenden operation still makes AEG tools, which they now seem to have positioned between Milwaukee (trade) and Ryobi (DIY/light trade) with some former Ryobi toools now being rebadged AEG (e.g 1/2in routers, chop saws, etc). AEG also make some of the Milwaukee tools (e.gsome of the recip saws, cordless tools, etc) and are responsible for battery and cordless tool development and manufacture for AEG and Milwaukee only (Ryobi is a separate operation)

 

[Gasguru]

I bought an Atlas Copco SDS mains drill around 1995...really an AEG.
It's still in perfect working operation 25 years later.
The quality is reminiscent of many German products of the 80s/90s before the rot set in and they lost the plot.
I noticed a few years ago at a trade show that Milwaukee still had the drill in their line up but the quality was like a cheap Chinese import, the moldings were dire.
Like all power tool manufacturers you should pick and choose the best tools in the range.
My Makita compound saw from 20 years ago is vastly better quality than the line up today.

 

[TimboTwo]

I bought an Atlas Copco SDS mains drill around 1995...really an AEG.
It's still in perfect working operation 25 years later.
The quality is reminiscent of many German products of the 80s/90s before the rot set in and they lost the plot.
I noticed a few years ago at a trade show that Milwaukee still had the drill in their line up but the quality was like a cheap Chinese import, the moldings were dire.
Like all power tool manufacturers you should pick and choose the best tools in the range.
My Makita compound saw from 20 years ago is vastly better quality than the line up today.

As I understand it the thing with 'German made' tools is if it says "Made in Germany" then it is actually manufactured there, if it just says "Germany" then it is imported and assembled not manufactured in Germany .

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Not necessarily. In the late 1970s when they were trying to challenge Bosch, in both industrial and DIY tools, AEG had a lot of their designs made in Eastern Europe by a German-owned firm called Sparky. They still had "Made in Germany" on them, presumably because the chuck was German, the box was and the final packaging was done in Germany. Sparky still make one or two of the old AEG designs today (e.g. the dry core drill).

 

[big-all]

As I understand it the thing with 'German made' tools is if it says "Made in Germany" then it is actually manufactured there, if it just says "Germany" then it is imported and assembled not manufactured in Germany .

its something like 12 or 15% off the product content needs to be german to call it a german product
this is how the same car with the same components can be a german ford a british ford a spanish ford etc etc as completed in those countries

 

[opps]

In part, because I couldn't find anyone selling the Bosch drill with batteries and a charger in a carton, I opted for the Metabo.

£205 from FFX for the brushless drill (with chuck), brushless impact driver, 2.0ah battery, 4.0ah battery and charger.

Positives- the batteries are (significantly) cheaper and can be used with some other brands (eg Steinell and Mafel). The same charger will charge the 18v batteries as well (not that I have any). 3yr warranty. The drill can stand up without falling over. Higher torque than the Bosch. Metabo sell a 12v SDS (AFAIK Bosch don't- I may get one for working off ladders, my corded Metabo SDS is too heavy for one hand use).

Negatives- the charger is not a fast charger. The range of 12v tools is smaller than Bosch (that said, If I do purchase, for example, a cordless reciprocating saw, I would get one with a higher voltage anyway).

I appreciate that I initially asked for advice regarding the Bosch brushed Vs brushless but the advice offered convinced me to go brushless. My change of brands was largely down to cost. Once I purchase the angle adaptor, the total cost of ownership will be about £240. That is not far off the cost of the Bosch with all of the attachments, batteries and charger but the Metabo package does include the impact driver.

 

[Malakym]

TBH, brushless is not exactly a new technology nor is it more expensive. Its a big swiz from the manufacturers who are holding it back and pumping out the same brushed motors and bringing in brushless gradually and in limited numbers as an "upgrade".

That and there is extra electronics to fail inside, whereas brushes can be replaced. Though these days there is a lot of needless electronics in brushed kit and brushes are sometimes made awkward to replace. If you can see the brush ports, good.

Manufacturers mostly sell both so they have a finger in both pies.

 

[opps]

That and there is extra electronics to fail inside, whereas brushes can be replaced. Though these days there is a lot of needless electronics in brushed kit and brushes are sometimes made awkward to replace. If you can see the brush ports, good.

Manufacturers mostly sell both so they have a finger in both pies.

Valid point but I have only once ever had to replace the brushes in a drill. from memory, the drill was about 18 years old. Obviously, if I used it more frequently, I would have had to replace them earlier.

 

[big-all]

its no so much the brushes as such its the fact you get perhaps 20-40% more eficcient enery use out the same battery and the upper power available is perhaps 20-40% more

in other words you have the comparison off a car that can do 35-40mpg rather than 25-30 mpg
you also have a 2l engine space rather than a 1600 engine

 

[blup]

The only (slight) downside to my brushless 12 volt makita combi drill is the "bite" on it when squeezing the trigger, even done gently torque kicks in much more strongly than the brushed version.

Blup

 

[Malakym]

its no so much the brushes as such its the fact you get perhaps 20-40% more eficcient enery use out the same battery and the upper power available is perhaps 20-40% more

in other words you have the comparison off a car that can do 35-40mpg rather than 25-30 mpg
you also have a 2l engine space rather than a 1600 engine

"fact" and "perhaps" aren't really things that should be in the same sentence. The extra %'s quoted are way over stated. Most people see their new one being better as everyone is basing it on either their older model batteries or just an old battery, of course it seems better.

To bring in a car analogy as well - It's like getting new tyres and comparing them to your old ones.

 

[big-all]

"fact" and "perhaps" aren't really things that should be in the same sentence. The extra %'s quoted are way over stated. Most people see their new one being better as everyone is basing it on either their older model batteries or just an old battery, of course it seems better.

To bring in a car analogy as well - It's like getting new tyres and comparing them to your old ones.

i am only trying to be genuinely helpful without "pushing "to much in any one direction
i deliberately use words like maybe or perhaps to stop people placing too much weight on my word
i tend to do a lot off research to form my own conclusions and dont tend to take what others say as exact but will give some far more weight than others as you get to know how accurate they try and be in life in general

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Most people see their new one being better as everyone is basing it on either their older model batteries or just an old battery, of course it seems better.

That's not always true of tradesmen, though where in larger teams you generally get the opportunity to try out new models. Agreed that comparisons should be done with new batteries