Shower- new CU or can I free up space on the existing one?

Well, been round to the neighbours house and got a peak at his "pro" CU installation. His sparky never phoned the DNO to ask about a load increase, he's cut the wire on the 100A main fuse and not even replaced it(I don't know if it's just the DNO that can do this, but our apprentices dad works for Fife council as a sparky and he says his old man does this when they do any work on their properties?).
As for the wiring he's taken the tails and ran them into single pole Henlys, so two of them, and put in a 5 way CU.
The earth from the new CU goes into a third Henly block(? eh?) left of the two necessary ones and is 16mm cable, it exits the block as 10mm earth and is connected to the spare earth point I'd already identified on the side of the main 100A fuse. Why? Surely the 16mm could have been run direct from the CU to the 100A earth terminal?
As for workmanship- there's a good 20-25mm of the grey sheathing removed outside of the Henlys/CU- I thought this double insulated tail idea was that it continued into the block/cu as far as you could get it, and you taped or marked the grey cables as to which was L/N???

I am going to do the work myself I've made that call.

We have a local Electrics factor up here whose prices are pretty damn good.
Shopping list is as follows:
7m 10mm T+E - 11.20
1m 16mm earth- 95p
1m 25mm Blue Tail- 1.99
1m 25mm Brown Tail- 1.90
MK 1100 DP Service Connector Block- 7.85
Wylex 2way Ivory CU- 13.00
Wylex 40A MCB- 7.30
Blank- 51p
45A Pull Cord Switch- 9.25
Pattress 1 Gang Extra Deep Box- 1.60

Redring 9.5kw Expressions Shower- 109.77(3yr guarantee unlike the competitors- got my last one from this company in '97 and it was still working perfectly in 2009, used in two flats in that time)

Might skip the pullcord/pattress depending on which route I run the cable, and just use a 50A switch located in the cupboard close to the CU(did that in the last place). Might also change to a 3/4way CU.
I'm gonna be in this house til I kick the bucket anyway, so having a bit of paper to prove to the next person it's been done "right" isn't important. My main concerns at this point are from the bending of the tails- and with this in mind I will be securing the existing tails to the board close to where they exit the meter, because the last thing I need is to be wrestling with them and have one come out of the meter because someone hasn't tightened them properly...that really would be a disaster needing the DNO to come out.
But getting a meter of L/N tails I'll be able to practice and develop a technique for shaping them prior to work starting, and stripping the sheath, and work out where on the board it's going to go and put the supply side tails in place etc.
As long as the connections are good, the wiring is up to spec, and it's double, nay triple checked before turning on I don't forsee any problems.
As for the plumbing side....a doddle.....will all be external pipework and probably JGSpeedfit so the white matches the bathroom walls.

Anything I've missed???
 
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Ta for the link, interesting stuff.

So in 2004 when I installed the last shower it was ok to do so, roughly speaking. All went well not a problem with anything.

Now it's a no no. I'd bet that if I DIY'd it and then had to get it "properly" tested(if the RCD trips surely that's enough to know you've made a balls up somewhere?), then had to notify the LABC and pay them to come out to inspect it the costs would be just slightly higher than getting a sparky to come out and do it to a worse standard than I would(like the neighbours)
These overbearing laws are being introduced in every trade under the guise of H&S, usually at the detriment of common sense and causing a more dangerous workplace, my work is a prime example. And most of these new laws are there to create service industry jobs- like home reports etc

Anyway, laws are made to be broken, where's my screwdrivers....
;)

In all seriousness, why doesn't this site remove the Electrics forum or make it only for registered sparkys to bounce stuff off each other?? I mean, if we aren't allowed to do sweet FA anymore you guys in the trade shouldn't be telling us anything should you....(grasp bulb with cloth, push lightly to release bayonet pins, turn anti clockwise and pull and release.... to insert bulb reverse procedure....or phone electrician who can give certificate for new bulb...)

If that's the case then only I should be allowed to build walls, no other trade or DIY'er should be allowed regardless of dimensions of the wall, a toppling 1.2m retaining wall would maim or kill a toddler easy enough but any goon with a Lidl's trowel and level set can have a go eh?
 
Ignore the Part P link - as you're in Scotland.

BUT.......You will still have to test and verify the circuit BEFORE and AFTER energising - switching on and seeing if the RCD trips isn't good enough!! (You didn't mention an RCD n your shopping list, by the way.)

How do you intend to-

Test continuity of CPC
IR test circuit - and do you know what results you should have?
Test ZS and compare results to max allowed in Regs.
Test the operation of the RCD.....and what results you should have.

Then, of course, these results need to be recorded on the Schedule of Test Results that will accompany your EIC, which in turn will contain details of supply characteristics, Ze and PFC.

I think posters might be getting a bit fed up with your 'I can do anything attitude'..........don't think I'd want to take a shower in your house any time soon.

Good luck :)
 
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if the RCD trips surely that's enough to know you've made a balls up somewhere?
Err...

Remember this?:

And that there are things you don't know. The problem with asking questions is that you'll only ask about the things you know that you don't know - you won't ask about stuff you have no idea even exists.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/8.1.1.htm


In all seriousness, why doesn't this site remove the Electrics forum or make it only for registered sparkys to bounce stuff off each other?? I mean, if we aren't allowed to do sweet FA anymore you guys in the trade shouldn't be telling us anything should you
I know you're in Scotland, but in E&W no DIY work whatsoever has been disallowed.

You are required to do it properly and safely (hard to argue with that) and for some work (mostly but not always the more complicated/major work) you're required to prove that it complies with the requirement to do it properly and safely.


If that's the case then only I should be allowed to build walls, no other trade or DIY'er should be allowed regardless of dimensions of the wall, a toppling 1.2m retaining wall would maim or kill a toddler easy enough but any goon with a Lidl's trowel and level set can have a go eh?
I think you'll find that the goon has to comply with the Building Regulations.
 
Sorry Electrifying, I don't have an "I can do anything" attitude really, I do know my limitations! :oops: Sorry if it sounds arrogant but I don't think this is beyond them though. Obviously from what you've listed I have no way of testing the installation to the required spec, so, with that in mind....

Looks like I'll just have to bite the bullet then with this.

So, can anyone advise what I CAN do to minimise costs and speed things up?
IE- if I buy that list of stuff(and the RCD) then tell any potential sparkys I get round for a quote I was going to do it myself cos I have before, but have been told I can't as it's illegal, will this save any money?(don't want to pay more for materials with their add on)
Will they dictate where the cable run has to go etc? Or would they then advise the route and come back another day?
I'm not having them dig holes through my walls. I'd rather install the necessary trunking etc and do this aspect of the prep.
Bear in mind the one who did the neighbours one holed a central heating pipe....

There's no fun in DIY anymore :cry:
 
IE- if I buy that list of stuff(and the RCD) then tell any potential sparkys I get round for a quote I was going to do it myself cos I have before, but have been told I can't as it's illegal, will this save any money?(don't want to pay more for materials with their add on)
Probably not.
Will they dictate where the cable run has to go etc?
Only as far as the regulations 'dictate'
Or would they then advise the route and come back another day?
I would. Do you pay traveling time?
I'm not having them dig holes through my walls. I'd rather install the necessary trunking etc and do this aspect of the prep.
It would suit me. I don't see why anyone would object
There's no fun in DIY anymore :cry:
It's not 'our' fault.

For some reason politicians don't like people killing themselves.
Don't know why but I suspect they prefer to do it themselves.
 
It's not that it's 'illegal' - you're perfectly entitled to do the job yourself.

But as BAS has stated on numerous occasions, and I hapen to agree, you need to do it correctly.

Building Regulatios in Scotland are different to ours - but you need to comply with them.....so you first need a knowledge of them.

The testing I listed is standard procedure for installing a new circuit - it's not so much for the law, but to confirm that what you have installed is safe.

Some sparks (like myself), are allowed (and insured), to 'third party test'.

In other words, if you are competent to design and install the shower circuit, you could then get a spark to Inspect and Test it for you...........he would then only sign the 'I&T' section of the EIC and draw up the 'Schedule of Test Results'.

This may even be acceptable under your Scottish Building Regs - I don';t know?
 
Ta for all the replies, it's always an education folks!

Best bet is to buy nothing and get a few quotes then, see where that goes.

Probably a lot less stress in the long run anyway, and if I found out the mssus was pumping the coal man and the house had to be sold it'd be one less hassle (not having it signed off :LOL: )
 
ABCwarrior said:
In all seriousness, why doesn't this site remove the Electrics forum or make it only for registered sparkys to bounce stuff off each other?? I mean, if we aren't allowed to do sweet FA anymore you guys in the trade shouldn't be telling us anything should you
A further point re. this comment.

We actually argue about this ourselves but there is a difference between potentially complex and dangerous projects such as yours and true DIY subjects such as -

//www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/fitting-a-sylvania-ls200-cabinet-light.297137/

or -

//www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/fitting-a-sylvania-ls200-cabinet-light.297137/
 
Leaving aside your disregard of testing, one of the flaws in your plan is to use the Standard consumer units: why?

And where is the RCD for this shower circuit?

The other is the use of Redring.........
 
What's wrong with Redring??! At least they offer a 3yr guarantee unlike Triton and Mira, 2yrs? So, what's the best shower then?
Like I said, mine lasted 12 yrs and was still going when I left the flat, although I had to remove it and the plumbing to reinstate it back to it's original state.
As for a "standard" CU- I haven't seen what that company are offering(pictureless website), I just assumed a standard 63A RCD with space for 2MCB's would be enough....Or are they laughably third world now? Have we moved CU's into mercury switching and nano technology, next it'll be laptop diagnostics and all that sh*te in the name of progress.....(hey, that's if it isn't already??? :rolleyes: :LOL: )
Bet Darth Vader never had this much grief building the Death Star, it'd be a non starter if he went for domination of the universe now.
 
He he just noticed your wee signature Securespark...quoting George Michael eh?
There's a man who knows a fair bit about Redrings..... :LOL:
 

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